So does this mean that the mediocre and expensive private colleges end up paying off a lot more than state schools? (the "I" being higher and therefor the "R" being higher too)
That's deeply unsettling...
ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
31–40 of 195 posts
Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
#32In addition to the obvious 0 line, it's worth taking the article's observation that S&P has returned 7.8% and mentally drawing a line there too. Also, for anyone in the position of deciding which to do, I'd add the observation that it is way easier to go to college and get a formal education in science, math, or engineering, and pursue an ongoing adhoc self-directed education in the arts and humanities in your remain…
I studied Japanese in school and I think it would have been extremely difficult to learn on my own. So... I'd say it depends.
Given the thousands of majors, there are certainly exceptions on both sides. But I'm still comfortable with that assessment in general; "learning an entire language" is also one of the exceptions.
I'd also point out that if for the sake of argument that was your primary goal at college, college is a very cost-ineffective choice. There's plenty of non-college ways of doing that, for way less money, since it's something that business people have to do routinely. Even if it means taking languages courses from the local community college on the side... I'm not aware of much evidence that major colleges teach the courses all that much better or indeed even differently for languages.
Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
#33On one hand it is nice to see that the school doesn't matter as much as people think but on the other hand it is sad that people see their studies only through the eyes of ROI. As if education has no value of its own. I'm probably just naive and an idealist.
I could take out a $150,000 loan to buy a splendid piece of art. It might uplift me spiritually and enlighten me in untold ways. But if the loan payments leave me unable to pay for rent or food, it's kind of moot.
As long as college is financed with debt, there needs to be a return that will outpace the debt interest or we end up with a generation of debtors who have no freedom to make use of the enlightenment they gained from their liberal arts degrees because they're forced to scramble and kowtow to the people who majored in business if they want to eat.
Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
#34Because this compares present day cost to all earners (not sure how they normalized for graduate degrees, etc.), there is a huge recency bias. I majored in humanities and minored in sciences/math about ten years ago. Even counting my piddly graduate stipend (again, in humanities) for several years, my return rate of return is over 20% (IRR). If my school had cost twice as much, as it does just ten years later, the rate of return would have been less than 10% as predicted.
Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
When it costs upwards of $100,000 to attend, you better be thinking of what you're getting for your money. Unfortunately in America it doesn't come free.
nothing's "free", not even college in european utopia.
It's way more "free" in Europe than the US though.
Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
#36I find it disheartening that the only way it seems we can think about college anymore is a sort of vocational school where we train for careers.
Aside from the "it's expensive!" claim, I would argue that the vocational school view is increasingly driven by how large colleges behave. As access to professors declines in favor of TA/lecturer taught classes, and as the amount of red tape rises, the whole "pursuit of knowledge" claim grows slowly thinner.
It's not gone, obviously, and some places are better than others, but it seems to be getting scarcer. If your degree no longer offers a shot at the sublime beauty of understanding, I suppose it's time to start counting dollars.
Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
#37I find it disheartening that the only way it seems we can think about college anymore is a sort of vocational school where we train for careers.
I find that point of view to be a conceit. It's an emulation of the noble classes of yore, who learned things they didn't need to know as a way of signaling that they could afford to do so because they didn't need to work. Most people are no better off 10-years down the line for having learned about what native Americans used to live in Virginia or what covalent bonds are.
For an opposing viewpoint, today might actually be an excellent day to ponder the effect of a lack of understanding of basic math, science, and history has on the general electorate.
Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
#38I find it disheartening that the only way it seems we can think about college anymore is a sort of vocational school where we train for careers.
When it costs upwards of $100,000 to attend, you better be thinking of what you're getting for your money. Unfortunately in America it doesn't come free.
My oldest daughter is just entering high school and we are indeed thinking about maximizing the return on education investment. I went to school for computer science and while I have a very good and easy life, I regret not spending more time studying the humanities. I've told her about this hoping to provide another perspective than what she gets at school where they push STEM relentlessly.
An investment in education should pay off in ways other than a financial return.
Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
#39It also depends on how much your parents earn: https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/graduate-earnings-what-y...
While cronyism and nepotism are probably significant factors, beyond those I don't know if what your parents earn matters as much as it may be an indicator of your manners, knowledge of social customs, proper grammar, etc.. Perhaps those raised in wealthy homes tend to know better how to behave among wealthy people than those who come from poor backgrounds. All else being equal, those who comport themselves better are more likely to get ahead.
Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
#40I find it disheartening that the only way it seems we can think about college anymore is a sort of vocational school where we train for careers.
Yes, and it is odious that "value" is measured based on ROI from getting the degree. Do STEM degrees yield more ROI? Perhaps, but if the article is attempting to help an individual student frame their thinking about what to major in, it is very bad advice. People should follow their aptitudes. Study what compels them and what they're talented in, regardless of statistical ROI's that apply NOT to individuals but to a…
> People should follow their aptitudes.
This is posed in too absolute terms. People should, among their aptitudes, pick some activity that has the prospect of a fulfilling professional life. Aptitude and personal preference represent one aspect of such fulfillment. Market fit is, however, most definitely relevant towards professional success.