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ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

economist.com

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Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#61

Post by JackFr »

rayiner wrote: post #29
emodendroket wrote: post #8

I find it disheartening that the only way it seems we can think about college anymore is a sort of vocational school where we train for careers.

I find that point of view to be a conceit. It's an emulation of the noble classes of yore, who learned things they didn't need to know as a way of signaling that they could afford to do so because they didn't need to work. Most people are no better off 10-years down the line for having learned about what native Americans used to live in Virginia or what covalent bonds are.

> Most people are no better off 10-years down the line for having learned about what native Americans used to live in Virginia or what covalent bonds are.

That all depends on how you measure better off.

Knowledge, understanding, wisdom are goods unto themselves. No doubt, we need to eat, but I'd rather know Latin, Norse mythology, Anselm's ontological proof, the Platonic solids, and the major players in the Glorious Revolution than not. And I'm better off for simply knowing them.

Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#62

Post by mtberatwork »

emodendroket wrote: post #27
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a side effect of the cost. In-state public university costs are up 296% over the last 20 years[1]. It is no surprise that a family spending that much money, per child, will consider the return on that spending. It is far more than a typical car and more in the realm of buying a home. [1] http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/paying-for-col...

Well, is it, or is the rising cost a result of us thinking of it as some "investment" in a future career? I think it's a sort of vicious cycle.

The rising cost is a direct result of cutbacks in public funding. http://www.cnbc.com/2015/06/16/why-college-costs-are-so-high...

Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#63

Post by humanrebar »

crispyambulance wrote: post #23
emodendroket wrote: post #8

I find it disheartening that the only way it seems we can think about college anymore is a sort of vocational school where we train for careers.

Yes, and it is odious that "value" is measured based on ROI from getting the degree. Do STEM degrees yield more ROI? Perhaps, but if the article is attempting to help an individual student frame their thinking about what to major in, it is very bad advice. People should follow their aptitudes. Study what compels them and what they're talented in, regardless of statistical ROI's that apply NOT to individuals but to a…

> People should follow their aptitudes. Study what compels them and what they're talented in, regardless of statistical ROI's that apply NOT to individuals but to a population of people.

I can be the best plate-spinner in the world, but I still need to provide for the people that depend on me. People should start with the set of jobs that can support them and their (future! sometimes unexpected!) family and then pick the things they have aptitude at.

Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#64

Post by cableshaft »

criddell wrote: post #38
kdamken wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it costs upwards of $100,000 to attend, you better be thinking of what you're getting for your money. Unfortunately in America it doesn't come free.

My oldest daughter is just entering high school and we are indeed thinking about maximizing the return on education investment. I went to school for computer science and while I have a very good and easy life, I regret not spending more time studying the humanities. I've told her about this hoping to provide another perspective than what she gets at school where they push STEM relentlessly. An investment in education…

Isn't that what general education is for? I majored in Computer Science, but I took classes on Japanese, Theater, Poly Sci, Criminal Justice, Communications, Literature, and probably a couple others I can't remember right now. In several of those subjects I took two or three classes.

Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#65

Post by [deleted] »

JackFr wrote: post #61
rayiner wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that point of view to be a conceit. It's an emulation of the noble classes of yore, who learned things they didn't need to know as a way of signaling that they could afford to do so because they didn't need to work. Most people are no better off 10-years down the line for having learned about what native Americans used to live in Virginia or what covalent bonds are.

> Most people are no better off 10-years down the line for having learned about what native Americans used to live in Virginia or what covalent bonds are. That all depends on how you measure better off. Knowledge, understanding, wisdom are goods unto themselves. No doubt, we need to eat, but I'd rather know Latin, Norse mythology, Anselm's ontological proof, the Platonic solids, and the major players in the Glorious…

[deleted]

Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#66

Post by Tideflat »

emodendroket wrote: post #46
Bartweiss wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Language seems like a complicating factor here. It's difficult (especially in non-Latinate cases) to learn self-directed, and people who are fluent and willing to work in the field can actually do quite well traveling and translating for businesses and government agencies. Of course, all of these numbers are complicated by "salary of graduates" versus "salary of graduates employed in field".

If you're studying Japanese because you think it will make you money it is a bad idea

Less well known languages like Japanese tend to have higher returns on investment than common ones like Spanish. IIRC Spanish has a return on investment of about 3%.

Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#67

Post by bisRepetita »

This study, like pretty much all the ones I have read on such topic, seems to compare income people going to college vs people not going to college. And they attribute all the benefits and ROI to college. While often it just measures that people that are smarter and motivated (because they can and want to go to college) do better financially than the one less smart and less motivated.

I wish I could find a study of similarly smart and motivated people who decided themselves to go or not to college. As a choice. And see what the difference in earnings over life would be. That would measure the added value of college education.

Anybody knows any such study?

I would think a smart, motivated person skipping college, having no such costs, plus 4 extra years of income and (hopefully) savings, would have a good ROI compared to college-educated peers. And even if they would start at a lower level initially, they would accumulate work experience earlier, moving up the ladder sooner.

Differently said, after 4 years, in addition to having a much healthier bank account, could this person be the person hiring the new college graduate?

Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#68

Post by humanrebar »

rayiner wrote: post #53
CPLX wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For an opposing viewpoint, today might actually be an excellent day to ponder the effect of a lack of understanding of basic math, science, and history has on the general electorate.

I assume you're talking about Trump. We've had universal basic education in those subjects for decades, so that cannot be the explanation. I suspect the problem is not a lack of education, but a lack of indoctrinating the right values. Consider climate change. I believe climate change is happening and needs to be addressed. But I don't really understand the mechanics. Neither do the people who think it doesn't exist.…

> They dislike him because they have different values than he holds

Right. I believe in the Golden Rule and Trump thinks it's not a big deal.

https://youtu.be/PX9reO3QnUA?t=17

Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where

#69

Post by Retric »

emodendroket wrote: post #60
Retric wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you can self learn Japanese by moving to Japan without much formal education ed: in Japanese. This assumes having a background where you could move to Japan. But, over a 20 year time scale it's not unreasonable.

That would be next to impossible without some college degree. Might as well study Japanese.

Yes, but the idea was you are better off studying something else and then picking up Japanese on the side. Instead of studding Japanese and learning that other thing on the side.
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