I would love to also see the data linking ROI and whether you went to study something out of love for the craft or just because you wanted a well-paying job.
ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
51–60 of 195 posts
Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
#52I find it disheartening that the only way it seems we can think about college anymore is a sort of vocational school where we train for careers.
To be fair, that article is in the Economist.
Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
I find that point of view to be a conceit. It's an emulation of the noble classes of yore, who learned things they didn't need to know as a way of signaling that they could afford to do so because they didn't need to work. Most people are no better off 10-years down the line for having learned about what native Americans used to live in Virginia or what covalent bonds are.
For an opposing viewpoint, today might actually be an excellent day to ponder the effect of a lack of understanding of basic math, science, and history has on the general electorate.
I assume you're talking about Trump. We've had universal basic education in those subjects for decades, so that cannot be the explanation. I suspect the problem is not a lack of education, but a lack of indoctrinating the right values.
Consider climate change. I believe climate change is happening and needs to be addressed. But I don't really understand the mechanics. Neither do the people who think it doesn't exist. Rather, I've been socialized to trust experts and scientists when they speak on their area of expertise and they have not.
People who dislike Trump don't do so because they know facts he doesn't. They dislike him because they have different values than he holds (or purports to hold).
Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
Language seems like a complicating factor here. It's difficult (especially in non-Latinate cases) to learn self-directed, and people who are fluent and willing to work in the field can actually do quite well traveling and translating for businesses and government agencies. Of course, all of these numbers are complicated by "salary of graduates" versus "salary of graduates employed in field".
But it does depend. If the above poster was taking Japanese as his sole Major it is probably not worth it. If he/she is taking it as an addendum to say a Business degree then it is very much worth it.
I guess it depends how you define "worth it." I have a satisfying career but it has nothing to do with my ability in Japanese.
Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
nothing's "free", not even college in european utopia.
It's way more "free" in Europe than the US though.
is it? how does one measure that? do they have some super secret method to running a university more cheaply than the us? is anything sacrificed in so doing? how do reputations stack up?
these are complicated issues, and pretending one's free and the other's an outrageous ripoff is a ridiculous simplification.
Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
#56In addition to the obvious 0 line, it's worth taking the article's observation that S&P has returned 7.8% and mentally drawing a line there too. Also, for anyone in the position of deciding which to do, I'd add the observation that it is way easier to go to college and get a formal education in science, math, or engineering, and pursue an ongoing adhoc self-directed education in the arts and humanities in your remain…
I studied Japanese in school and I think it would have been extremely difficult to learn on my own. So... I'd say it depends.
I think you can self learn Japanese by moving to Japan without much formal education ed: in Japanese. This assumes having a background where you could move to Japan. But, over a 20 year time scale it's not unreasonable.
Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
#57I find it disheartening that the only way it seems we can think about college anymore is a sort of vocational school where we train for careers.
Aside from the "it's expensive!" claim, I would argue that the vocational school view is increasingly driven by how large colleges behave . As access to professors declines in favor of TA/lecturer taught classes, and as the amount of red tape rises, the whole "pursuit of knowledge" claim grows slowly thinner. It's not gone, obviously, and some places are better than others, but it seems to be getting scarcer. If your…
Well, yes, it's one thing for businesses to prattle on about how colleges must be reformed to teach only things they think they need, but it's frustrating to see colleges start accepting it too.
Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
#58In addition to the obvious 0 line, it's worth taking the article's observation that S&P has returned 7.8% and mentally drawing a line there too. Also, for anyone in the position of deciding which to do, I'd add the observation that it is way easier to go to college and get a formal education in science, math, or engineering, and pursue an ongoing adhoc self-directed education in the arts and humanities in your remain…
I'd add the observation that it is way easier to go to college and get a formal education in science, math, or engineering, and pursue an ongoing adhoc self-directed education in the arts and humanities in your remaining decades of life, than the other way around. Yeah, not really. There is a huge difference between reading a book by yourself, and reading a book then discussing it with a room full of other intelligen…
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Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
#59It also depends on how much your parents earn: https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/graduate-earnings-what-y...
While cronyism and nepotism are probably significant factors, beyond those I don't know if what your parents earn matters as much as it may be an indicator of your manners, knowledge of social customs, proper grammar, etc.. Perhaps those raised in wealthy homes tend to know better how to behave among wealthy people than those who come from poor backgrounds. All else being equal, those who comport themselves better ar…
> Comport themselves better
I have to disagree, manners are not a linear scale from bad to good, certain behaviours will ingratiate you to certain groups while ostracising you from others. If you (as some people do) consciously decide to mimic the behaviours of richer groups then yes, this may help your ROI.
I'm in Britain, and the class system here is probably a lot more linear than most. One of the issues with just behaving better is that there's a huge amount of snobbishness (from everyone, at every level), and many of the defining behaviours of the upper classes require having a great deal of money to even participate.
Re: ROI on a college degree depends what you study, not where
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
I studied Japanese in school and I think it would have been extremely difficult to learn on my own. So... I'd say it depends.
I think you can self learn Japanese by moving to Japan without much formal education ed: in Japanese. This assumes having a background where you could move to Japan. But, over a 20 year time scale it's not unreasonable.
That would be next to impossible without some college degree. Might as well study Japanese.