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Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

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Re: Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

#51

Post by viraptor »

sndean wrote: post #23

Why couldn't they have just left it as "it's a really good air filter"? If you're in the vicinity of bioweapon aerosol, the particles will possibly still be present in air once you get out or will have coated your car. Also, for some of these organisms, you only need to inhale So, unless Tesla plans on packing powered air purifying respirators [2] in their cars, this is a gimmick. [1] http://www.asm.org/ccLibraryFile…

I think people read it too literally right now. If you say some road bollard is so strong it could survive a bomb explosion you usually don't expect bomb explosions. It's just that it survives large forces.

This system stops particles as small as ones that could be used in bio weapons. It's a theoretic comparison, not a warfare ad.

Re: Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

#52

Post by dmlorenzetti »

bobbles wrote: post #24
dmlorenzetti wrote: post #10

Bioweapon Defense Mode is not a marketing statement, it is real. Their filter does a good job cleaning particles out of the cabin air. Good on them. Nevertheless, calling it "Bioweapon Defense Mode" is clearly a prize bit of marketing. A system designed to protect against an external bioagent wouldn't run huge amounts of outside air through the filter. That would just load the filter more quickly, impacting its perfo…

I think the idea is though that the car air is already compromised. e.g. they have opened the doors to get into the car, then closed the doors and enabled the BDM. It needs to filter the air from outside and get it into the car to quickly displace the air already inside the vehicle that is contaminated. At the point where the air is clean though it would be a good idea to make the car it's own little safe haven and a…

It needs to filter the air from outside and get it into the car to quickly displace the air already inside the vehicle that is contaminated.

In exactly the same way that recirculating air from inside the vehicle is easier on your air-conditioner, recirculating interior air is easier on the filter.

With the A/C, you want some minimum outside air to get rid of CO2 and whatever other effluents the passengers and materials in the car are generating. But if you were driving through a plume of toxic gas/particles, you wouldn't mind smelling your armpits and a little extra CO2 if it meant extra protection from whatever is out there.

Hence I believe that if you were really designing a Bioweapon Defense Mode, you would cut the intake of outside air to an absolute minimum. You might not go for zero flow, because you might want to pressurize the cabin a bit (in the U.S., most building mechanical systems are set up this way). But I wouldn't expect to cycle through enough outside air that you could halve the concentration in that bubble (which is probably 10-20 car volumes or more) in less than 15 minutes, as their graph shows.

Re: Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

#53

Post by will_hughes »

tn13 wrote: post #17
ch4ch4 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe to pander to the Chinese market? They've been having trouble with cancelled orders in China. Definitely not a waste of money if it means that they can offload inventory...

I am referring to American taxpayers money. Poorest of poor in America is subsidizing these rich people gadgets at around $8k per unit. Why should we gift this money to China ? If Chinese people want clean air let Chinese government fund it.

> Poorest of poor in America is subsidizing these rich people gadgets at around $8k per unit.

Okay, I'll bite - where's your evidence?

Re: Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

#54

Post by StanislavPetrov »

dmlorenzetti wrote: post #10

Bioweapon Defense Mode is not a marketing statement, it is real. Their filter does a good job cleaning particles out of the cabin air. Good on them. Nevertheless, calling it "Bioweapon Defense Mode" is clearly a prize bit of marketing. A system designed to protect against an external bioagent wouldn't run huge amounts of outside air through the filter. That would just load the filter more quickly, impacting its perfo…

That would depend on your definition of a "bioweapon". How many people have to be killed by a toxic substance injected into the air to consider it a weapon? 1.2 million people died in China alone in 2010 from air pollution.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/02/world/asia/air-pollution-l...

Re: Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

#55

Post by varjag »

MertsA wrote: post #37
idoco wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, and I can tell you from first hand experience that this is how a tank NBC protection system works - The crew cabin is pressurized with high flow of filtered air. http://elbitsystems.com/Elbitmain/files/Kinetics_NBC-CBRN.pd... [Edit - adding this] I can also say, that this creates a very uncomfortable sensation in your ears while the cabin is being over-pressurized (about 2 minutes)

Yes but it's the positive pressure that's important, not the high flow rate. You may need a high flow rate to maintain whatever pressure you're aiming for but the thing that's keeping out any contaminants is the fact that every tiny leak is only going to have air going from the inside to the outside other than the filter itself. If you've got a big room with only one tightly sealed door, you don't need a lot of flow…

Thing is you can't maintain positive pressure in a battletank without high flow rate. Tanks are not fully sealed.

Re: Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

#56

Post by gambiting »

crdb wrote: post #12

Brilliant marketing: 1. get people worried about something they previously didn't care about; 2. as a solution, add a new part to the car that will need frequent replacement and maintenance, thereby increasing the CLV.

I don't think that's completely true. I come from the Polish Silesia region which is full of heavy industry, and in my absolutely normal car I had to replace the cabin air filter every 6 months - it was just black with soot. Now I live in the UK and in my car here I've had the same filter for 2 years now and it's almost brand new - the difference in air pollution is massive and is definitely something I care about.

And your comment reminds me of the discussions about DPF(diesel particulate filters) - they are installed in diesel cars to reduce the soot emissions, but of course, instead of being happy, people complain that there is yet another part that can break down and which will need replacing("why can't cars be as simple as they were 10/20/30/40 years ago" - pick your own decade depending on the age of the person talking).

Re: Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

#57

Post by PhasmaFelis »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #54
dmlorenzetti wrote: post #10

Bioweapon Defense Mode is not a marketing statement, it is real. Their filter does a good job cleaning particles out of the cabin air. Good on them. Nevertheless, calling it "Bioweapon Defense Mode" is clearly a prize bit of marketing. A system designed to protect against an external bioagent wouldn't run huge amounts of outside air through the filter. That would just load the filter more quickly, impacting its perfo…

That would depend on your definition of a "bioweapon". How many people have to be killed by a toxic substance injected into the air to consider it a weapon? 1.2 million people died in China alone in 2010 from air pollution. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/02/world/asia/air-pollution-l...

Weapons are defined by intent, not body count.

Re: Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

#58

Post by creshal »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #45
xchaotic wrote: post #43

What TFA doesn't mention is where the actual pollution happens - at the factories producing batteries with dangerous chemical such as lithium, and where the electricity is produced - coal power stations, or if renewables are used, where the renewables are manufactured - for example rare earth minerals such as gallium needed for solar panels being mined in conflict zones with no environment regulation. Yes sometimes t…

The difference is that electricity can be produced any number of ways, not just by burning coal, and if some amazing eco-friendly battery alternative appears at some point in the future, existing EVs can easily be retrofitted with them. On the other hand, a fossil fuel vehicle bought today will still be a fossil fuel vehicle 100 years from now, regardless of technological advancements. No, EVs aren't perfect and may…

Even if we were to fuel EVs from oil power plants, those power plants would be more efficient than ICEs (enough to offset transmission/storage losses) and can have much better filtration systems.

Re: Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

#59

Post by ghshephard »

tn13 wrote: post #14
ghshephard wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've ever wanted to travel in Indonesia/Singapore/China locations during the multi-month Haze/particulate issues, you would understand how this is a pretty invaluable technology. I don't really have any lung issues (that I know of) - but if I forget to bring a mask, and walk for any distance, I start coughing and gagging after a while to clear my lungs. It gets so bad, that at times people are not only told to s…

Is Tesla making cars for Indonesia, Singapore or China currently? Surely there are problem all over the planet but I don't see why American government must subsidize solving those problems.

With all due respect, and I mean that seriously, I think that your focus on government subsidies is causing you to be overly negative on this feature. I was using Singapore/Indonesia/China as examples of places that I was either directly familiar with, or had recently read about. If it's really important to you, then you can replace those countries with "Heavily Smog impacted regions of the United States, Roads experiencing forest fires (very common), or an driving situation in which particulate matter is problematic for which the driver would like to reduce somewhat"

It's a great function for the home, and I think most drivers would be well served - and in the case of drivers with Asthma, or other ailments impacted by particulate pollution) critically served.

Re: Putting the Tesla HEPA Filter and Bioweapon Defense Mode to the Test

#60

Post by PhasmaFelis »

joshontheweb wrote: post #31
beloch wrote: post #18

Maybe it's just all the Prince nostalgia speaking, but ever since watching the classic 1989 version of Batman, I've wondered how long you'd really be safe inside of a car during a terrorist chemical weapon attack. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hn-CTSKmeo Thankyou Tesla for delivering a car that the 1989 version of me would have been pretty keen on acquiring!

Speaking of that scene. I've always been skeptical that a jet could drag big balloons away like that. Seems like a lot of weight/drag to load on on the front tip of the plane.

Also, I suspect that a stylized batwing shape may not, in fact, be optimally aerodynamic.
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