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One-third of SF Bay Area residents hope to leave soon, poll finds

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Re: One-third of SF Bay Area residents hope to leave soon, poll finds

#211
post #180

I'm one of those in the 1/3rd, currently in the process of moving to the Denver/Boulder area. I knew on paper the housing would be cheaper, but what's stood out to me is how much less crowded it is: You can go to stores and find parking, and not wait 15 minutes at the cashier. You can go to restaurants and actually get a table. You can make unprotected left turns. Things are busy during rush hour, but outside of that…

Boulder has a NIMBY problem nearly as bad as San Francisco's: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11583455 https://journal.dedasys.com/2015/06/18/boulder-colorado-vs-b... Not sure about Denver, I never looked into it much - it's an order of magnitude too big for me.

[deleted]

Re: One-third of SF Bay Area residents hope to leave soon, poll finds

#212
post #197
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Italy has double the unemployment rate and double the poverty rate of the US. It would be pretty shocking if they didn't have reasonable housing prices relative to the US. For comparison, Seattle is denser than Rome. I'm pretty sure housing is still cheaper in Rome than Seattle.

Housing in Italy is not actually cheap . It's just not batshit crazy expensive like the California bay area. Rome is pretty spread out in terms of a city. Most of Europe has good public transportation and reasonable housing prices, although of course there are tons of local variations (London is super expensive). I just don't see any reason why you can't have both decent transportation and reasonable housing prices.

I walked across most of Rome with my second-trimester wife many times on our vacation there a couple of years ago. It's really not that spread out. What cities in Italy are less spread out? Naples, I guess. Any others?

I agree that Rome is not really cheap. But I don't think it's fair to point to Italy as an example of affordable housing driven by higher density when it's not more dense. Especially since density actually seems to correlate well with price. San Francisco is way denser than Rome or Seattle.

I don't really agree that most of Europe has reasonable housing prices. For the most part, in urban areas homes seem to be quite expensive and quite small. I wouldn't call that reasonable in comparison to, say, Austin or even Seattle. Just about anywhere is reasonable compare to San Francisco of course.

I'm not decided on whether it's possible to have good transportation and reasonable housing prices. You have to have a pretty dense population to make public transit cost effective, and to pay for the up-front costs. And density does tend to imply very expensive housing.

Re: One-third of SF Bay Area residents hope to leave soon, poll finds

#213
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Literally broken windows This would be a code violation. Neighbors would in theory be reporting it.

They can report it all they like. The city (or HOA) will send a letter to the homeowner demanding that they fix it. If the don't fix it in a few years then they'll send a second letter or may go as far as to take a lien out on the property. What doesn't happen is that the window gets fixed.

No, it's not "a few years". Cities act very quickly on this since broken windows make the dwelling open to all sorts of problems like animals coming in, people coming in (trespass, drug den, etc).

Re: One-third of SF Bay Area residents hope to leave soon, poll finds

#214

I'm one of those in the 1/3rd, currently in the process of moving to the Denver/Boulder area. I knew on paper the housing would be cheaper, but what's stood out to me is how much less crowded it is: You can go to stores and find parking, and not wait 15 minutes at the cashier. You can go to restaurants and actually get a table. You can make unprotected left turns. Things are busy during rush hour, but outside of that…

What does "you can make unprotected left turns" mean? I'm from the UK so I guess this is the US equivalent of turning right at a set of traffic lights... but what significance does "unprotected" have?

You're right, it's the equivalent of a right handed turn in the UK.

Consider an intersection between two perpendicular streets that is controlled by traffic signals.

A protected turn is one in which the turn through the intersection and across the oncoming lane of traffic happens when the oncoming traffic (that is going straight) is stopped.

An unprotected turn is one in which the turn through the intersection and across the oncoming lane of traffic happens when the oncoming traffic does not stop.

In the unprotected turn's case, traffic going straight has the right of way, so cars wishing to turn must wait for a break in oncoming traffic, or for the signal to change. In either case, one car goes straight into the intersection and then stops and waits with its blinker on for a safe opportunity to finish its turn. If it is still there when the light changes, it completes the turn as oncoming traffic comes to a halt and before the sideways traffic begins to move.

Unprotected turns are usually done when both streets are not very busy or when one street is much busier than the other street. In that case the less busy street will have unprotected turns, because it means that there is one less signal during which the busier street is at a complete standstill (ie one signal for both traffic turning onto the busy road and traffic going straight across the busy road instead of one signal for traffic turning onto the busy road and another signal for traffic going straight across the busy road).

Unprotected turns can also work in on very busy streets (think traffic jams), because the streets are so filled that only one car would have space to complete a turn without remaining partially inside the intersection anyway. This allows the lights to cycle faster, since there are fewer signals per cycle.

The Los Angeles area is (semi-)famous for its many intersections with unprotected left-hand turns.

Re: One-third of SF Bay Area residents hope to leave soon, poll finds

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to add that Fort Lauderdale is a horrible, horrible place too. We don't have a tech industry here so you won't find work.

I'd like to move home, but my wife hates South Florida. :(

I'm moving back and keeping my SV job . Will travel back and forth. Keep working it, I got mine to agree.

Re: One-third of SF Bay Area residents hope to leave soon, poll finds

#216
post #212
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Housing in Italy is not actually cheap . It's just not batshit crazy expensive like the California bay area. Rome is pretty spread out in terms of a city. Most of Europe has good public transportation and reasonable housing prices, although of course there are tons of local variations (London is super expensive). I just don't see any reason why you can't have both decent transportation and reasonable housing prices.

I walked across most of Rome with my second-trimester wife many times on our vacation there a couple of years ago. It's really not that spread out. What cities in Italy are less spread out? Naples, I guess. Any others? I agree that Rome is not really cheap. But I don't think it's fair to point to Italy as an example of affordable housing driven by higher density when it's not more dense. Especially since density actu…

I'm guessing you walked across the city center, not 'Rome', which is fairly large:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Rome,+Italy/@41.9036094,12...

Re: One-third of SF Bay Area residents hope to leave soon, poll finds

#217
post #204
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the extreme, these things can hold a lot of people without too much land: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyscraper But you don't really need those in most places. Simply building 'in' more and up 2/3/4 stories would add a ton of housing in much of the bay area.

Those are very expensive to build, approaching $1000/sqft. Also require utilities, transit, and other city services (schools, police, fire, etc).

Prices are high enough in San Francisco to pay for them.

2/3/4/5/6 stories are significantly cheaper to build.

Re: One-third of SF Bay Area residents hope to leave soon, poll finds

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can have good mass transit or affordable housing, but not both. Why's that?

Good mass transit increases demand for housing in its coverage area, increasing prices.

But wealthier people are less likely to want mass transit, since they can afford private transportation. That's basically the fundamental issue to providing good mass transit in the US: anybody who can afford to, avoids it.

Re: One-third of SF Bay Area residents hope to leave soon, poll finds

#219
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I admit this comment might be insensitive and will probably ruffle the feathers of many but I was purely thinking from the point of view of economic impact and who drive(s) the innovation engine here. VCs, People who made it in tech, hungry (for success) people who want to make it in tech, and senior product and engineering people who can build solid products (not charlatans or imposters) have no reason to leave SV.…

Zoom out - you're missing the huge demographic risk. The next generation of people who will become top engineers, founders, etc. are facing tougher tradeoffs between standard of living and access to SV's social and business networks. It's not only the risk that the current drivers will leave but that the new drivers will just go elsewhere.

All indications are that the new drivers are being attracted to the Bay Area, and more so than they have ever been.

Re: One-third of SF Bay Area residents hope to leave soon, poll finds

#220

What's the number of people that want to move to the Bay Area though?

I'm thinking about moving to either Bay Area or Los Angeles with a family, from Prague. I have a 7 years old kid. I am not sure if that's the right thing. We're doing it for the climate. It's really difficult to find a warm English-speaking country where you won't be culturally isolated from the rest of the world. I can work pretty much from anywhere, however I am not a magnate. Things definitely to be missed: - Prag…

I'd look into San Diego if you're doing it for the climate. It has by far the best climate in the United States, and is a beautiful, manageable city right on the ocean.
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