Review: Japanese Hologram Pop Star Hatsune Miku Tours North America • Hacker News Board

Re: Review: Japanese Hologram Pop Star Hatsune Miku Tours North America

#31

Post by pessimizer » Sat, Apr 30, 2016, 6:45 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #10

Imagine once VR/AR become mainstream. You'd have real artists having simul-cencerts in ten stadiums (or in homes for the homebodies) competing against anime performers who don't get exhausted or get sick or who want to retire... So the farce of the "artist" can be all done with --just corporate manufactured music entertainment.

I simply don't understand why anyone would pay to go to that. I'd rather feed pigeons in the park, or pay strangers in the street to do their best version of a Taylor Swift song.

Re: Review: Japanese Hologram Pop Star Hatsune Miku Tours North America

#32

Post by alexvoda » Sat, Apr 30, 2016, 7:07 PM UTC

mrspeaker wrote: post #18

alexvoda wrote: post #12

There are already plenty of comments on Ars discussing the various inaccuracies of the article. I'm not sure pointing them out here would be useful. For starters, cs702's comment here ( https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=11602173&goto=item%3Fi... ) is plain wrong.

Skimming through the top bunch of comments doesn't reveal much... is his comment "plain wrong" as in it isn't a large group of people? Or they aren't in the US? Or they aren't paying? Or it isn't a virtual pop star? Or it wasn't created by Japanese businessmen? Or reality isn't as strange as fiction?

https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=11602544&goto=item%3Fi... summed things pretty well.

It is wrong in the assumptions it makes. For your questions in particular.

- Yes, this was a concert (with paid tickets), in the US, attended by a large group of people.

- Yes and no, Miku is often called a Virtual pop star but that is a misnomer if by virtual pop star you mean anything else than just a fictional character who is a popular singer. It is just like saying Harry Potter is a wizard.

- It depends on your meaning of create. Miku was indeed created by Crypton. But what they created is nothing more than a voicebank for the vocal synthesis software Vocaloid, given it a name and commissioned someone to create the box art for the product. Everything else about Miku (her personality, likes, dislikes, hobbies, friendships, rivalries, clothes, the songs she sings, etc.) was made by fans. Miku is by no means controlled by anyone. Crypton, who have the original trademark for the character have given everyone the right to create what they want with the character. Through the fan art you make (songs, animations, fan fics, etc.) you have as much control on Miku as anyone else. There is no canon version of the Vocaloids.

Vocaloid is the vocal synthesis software created by Yamaha. The software uses voice banks usually provided by third parties. Each voice bank usually has a character associated. These characters are collectively called the Vocaloids. Hatsune Miku is one of the characters for one of the voice banks. It has nothing to do with all the visuals. Fans just created 3D animation software for crating animations with the characters. These animations were eventually used to create the concerts. Crypton, being the original trademark holder started providing these concerts to fans who requested them using fan made songs, fan made costumes and fan made choreographies.

- I leave the last question about the strangeness of reality to you.

Re: Review: Japanese Hologram Pop Star Hatsune Miku Tours North America

#33

Post by alexvoda » Sat, Apr 30, 2016, 7:27 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #30

animeweedlord wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of popular Vocaloid music is created by the fans themselves, not "Japanese businessmen." In fact, the kneejerk reaction is completely backwards: regular human idols and pop stars are the fake, focus tested machinations of businessmen. Vocaloids are a pure representation of the feelings of regular people. The pop song on the radio was designed and marketed to appeal to a certain audience by people th…

Bull. These things are not created by a single person. For a more western example Toy Story 3 might have been a moving story, but it's no single persons vision given form. Instead it's the passion from many distilled into it's most marketable form.

Are you claiming the songs are not made by individual persons? I know such song writers personally. It's not that big of a deal to create a song an put it on Youtube.

I don't really get why you are comparing it to Toy Story.

Re: Review: Japanese Hologram Pop Star Hatsune Miku Tours North America

#34

Post by junto » Sat, Apr 30, 2016, 7:28 PM UTC

nopzor wrote: post #22

kpil wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just about to write that. Was there anything like take existing at that time or did he project the trends and adding a good dose of Japanese pop culture weirdness, completely on his own?

Idoru is also the first thing I thought of when I read the headline. It was written 20 years ago. Gibson has a proven record of being eerily prescient.

Instant hot coffee in a can was one of my favourite little ideas he put forward.

Re: Review: Japanese Hologram Pop Star Hatsune Miku Tours North America

#35

Post by Paul_S » Sat, Apr 30, 2016, 7:28 PM UTC

67726e wrote: post #24

mc32 wrote: post #10

Imagine once VR/AR become mainstream. You'd have real artists having simul-cencerts in ten stadiums (or in homes for the homebodies) competing against anime performers who don't get exhausted or get sick or who want to retire... So the farce of the "artist" can be all done with --just corporate manufactured music entertainment.

Might work for some manufactured pop stars and the like, but I can't see that being a big thing. I can't start a mosh pit in my living room, and pulling out my lighter for that ballad just isn't going to have the same feeling. I can't go see a band like Jucifer[0] play music so loud that I can feel the music with every fiber of my being. You're forgetting one very real thing, music is more than just an aural and visu…

All of those things can be provided by a virtual band - that's pretty much the point of the article. You can still have concerts where you interact with other flesh and blood fans.

Re: Review: Japanese Hologram Pop Star Hatsune Miku Tours North America

#36

Post by bitwize » Sat, Apr 30, 2016, 7:41 PM UTC

kpil wrote: post #13

jacobwcarlson wrote: post #9

The absence of Idoru[1] references is surprising. Almost as surprising as learning that book is 20 years old. I may need to re-read it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idoru

I was just about to write that. Was there anything like take existing at that time or did he project the trends and adding a good dose of Japanese pop culture weirdness, completely on his own?

Only in anime like Megazone 23 and Macross Plus. In fact, Miku may be so appealing simply because she represents the merger of the real world with the anime world that otaku have long yearned for.

Re: Review: Japanese Hologram Pop Star Hatsune Miku Tours North America

#37

Post by user89458945 » Sat, Apr 30, 2016, 7:46 PM UTC

kpil wrote: post #13

jacobwcarlson wrote: post #9

The absence of Idoru[1] references is surprising. Almost as surprising as learning that book is 20 years old. I may need to re-read it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idoru

I was just about to write that. Was there anything like take existing at that time or did he project the trends and adding a good dose of Japanese pop culture weirdness, completely on his own?

Gibson copied the idea from Japanese media. Macross Plus' Sharon Apple, a holographic pop idol, existed for years before Idoru.

Re: Review: Japanese Hologram Pop Star Hatsune Miku Tours North America

#38

Post by Retric » Sat, Apr 30, 2016, 7:47 PM UTC

alexvoda wrote: post #33

Retric wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bull. These things are not created by a single person. For a more western example Toy Story 3 might have been a moving story, but it's no single persons vision given form. Instead it's the passion from many distilled into it's most marketable form.

Are you claiming the songs are not made by individual persons? I know such song writers personally. It's not that big of a deal to create a song an put it on Youtube. I don't really get why you are comparing it to Toy Story.

The song is just a small part. With human pop stars and Animation you at least get a human's take on some music. But, here the voice is synthesized from several people and effects, the motion are all re-rendered and refined based on feedback from multiple people etc etc.

Yes, it's voice sounds interesting, but it completely lacks emotion. So, the show ends up even more fake than Animation which still relies on traditional voice actors.

Re: Review: Japanese Hologram Pop Star Hatsune Miku Tours North America

#39

Post by Animats » Sat, Apr 30, 2016, 7:50 PM UTC

alexvoda wrote: post #32

mrspeaker wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Skimming through the top bunch of comments doesn't reveal much... is his comment "plain wrong" as in it isn't a large group of people? Or they aren't in the US? Or they aren't paying? Or it isn't a virtual pop star? Or it wasn't created by Japanese businessmen? Or reality isn't as strange as fiction?

https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=11602544&goto=item%3Fi... summed things pretty well. It is wrong in the assumptions it makes. For your questions in particular. - Yes, this was a concert (with paid tickets), in the US, attended by a large group of people. - Yes and no, Miku is often called a Virtual pop star but that is a misnomer if by virtual pop star you mean anything else than just a fictional character who…

Yes. It's all synthesized, and mostly by fans. The Vocaloid software is for sale, for about $100.[1]

Creating a new Vocaloid voice still requires a live singer, who must sing a long list of phrases. It's not a direct voice synthesis. Full singing synthesizers exist, but as yet are not as good.

[1] http://sonicwire.com/product/vocaloid/special/mikuv3e

Re: Review: Japanese Hologram Pop Star Hatsune Miku Tours North America

#40

Post by animeweedlord » Sat, Apr 30, 2016, 8:05 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #38

alexvoda wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you claiming the songs are not made by individual persons? I know such song writers personally. It's not that big of a deal to create a song an put it on Youtube. I don't really get why you are comparing it to Toy Story.

The song is just a small part. With human pop stars and Animation you at least get a human's take on some music. But, here the voice is synthesized from several people and effects, the motion are all re-rendered and refined based on feedback from multiple people etc etc. Yes, it's voice sounds interesting, but it completely lacks emotion. So, the show ends up even more fake than Animation which still relies on tradit…

Is the guy playing acoustic guitar on the street for tips not the sole creator of his work because some number of people were involved with manufacture of his guitar?

Most Vocaloid songs become popular in part because of videos that were animated by a single (usually different) person.

As for their voices lacking emotion, that's just, like, your opinion, man.