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Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

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Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#191

Post by Symbiote »

exDM69 wrote: post #182
zyxley wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By my thoughts, somebody who's spent more than $1000 or so on bike and gear, maximum, isn't a "casual" cyclist. If they're buying individual parts that cost more than an entire road bike that would be recommended by a store clerk to some guy walking in off the street, they're well beyond "casual".

That isn't too much to spend on a bike. My bike is more than that and isn't special in any way, just a good regular bike. And I just use it to ride to work, this isn't anything I'm enthusiastic about. Add the bags/panniers, lights, pump, clothing and other accessories on top. I get about 100 miles a week, 8-9 months a year so it justifies the investment.

I'd say anyone who has special clothing for cycling is an enthusiast, particularly if it's more than $50 worth.

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#192

Post by giarc »

darkerside wrote: post #94
giarc wrote: post #88

>She also said that this bike was taken by accident by her helpers to the pit area. >She claimed that he had put a motor in unbeknownst to her What is with athletes and never admitting their mistakes. You were caught, I would have much more respect for someone if they just came out and said "Yes, I did it, I take full responsibility." Instead they come up with these ridiculous excuses that do nothing but continue to…

Marion Jones is the only person I can think of that has actually done this. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/05/jones.doping/index.html?ere...

I seem to remember Andy Pettitte immediately taking responsibility, as opposed to Roger Clemens who denied it for awhile. However, I'm not positive.

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#193

Post by giarc »

Nano2rad wrote: post #164
giarc wrote: post #88

>She also said that this bike was taken by accident by her helpers to the pit area. >She claimed that he had put a motor in unbeknownst to her What is with athletes and never admitting their mistakes. You were caught, I would have much more respect for someone if they just came out and said "Yes, I did it, I take full responsibility." Instead they come up with these ridiculous excuses that do nothing but continue to…

What is the proof what she said is wrong?

Hard to believe that she gave a bike to a friend who installed a hidden motor. The friend brought the bike to the race so that he could ride the course with the motor. Then when the team was called to bring the bikes to inspection, they accidentally brought the bike the guy brought (that also happened to belong to the girl in question). Either a series of coincidences or someone making up excuses.

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#194

Post by omonra »

dpark wrote: post #172
methehack wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point here is that I have always found it so completely unfathomable that someone would spend so much time on an activity -- any activity -- and then cheat. Cheating is about looking better, not being better. At the same time, it robs others, equally devoted, of a fair basis of comparison. That it ever happens is amazing to me; yet, it happens all the time at the highest levels of competition. And it happens in ac…

There was a paper shared on HN a month or two ago about this. Winners cheat more. Not just cheaters win, but winners turn to cheating. The high from a win is addictive. It feels good, so you want it to continue. Winners also pick up the feeling that they deserve to win and so cheating is somehow justified. Add to this all the external pressure and the monetary rewards and cheating isn't really surprising at all. I be…

Yep.

Same applies to rogue traders. They usually start faking profits after a run of success ends and they need to keep up the appearances.

Nobody (that I heard of) just started rogue trading from zero.

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#195

Post by davidw »

heartbreak wrote: post #188
davidw wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like cycling, and I like clean cycling, and it does not do any good to smear the whole sport with "dirty!". What's that do to the guys who are competing clean? It pisses all over their efforts is what it does. It's not fair, and it does not help. Soccer is certainly not as hard as cycling ( https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/55/b5/51/55b551bfa... ) , but with that much money involved, being relatively fresh…

Neymar gains a competitive advantage working over the referee's opinion of the severity of a foul by feigning injury there (I can't believe I'm defending him), but the cyclist would not gain any advantage by laying on the pavement moaning. Also, Neymar literally broke his back in that occurrence, which is evident mere frames after that still.

Yes, soccer has an incentive to roll around on the ground. That's kind of the point.

The cyclist is Adriano Malori, by the way. Sadly, he crashed again in January, with much worse consequences, but is slowly recovering:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/malori-has-goosebumps-at-spe...

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#196

Post by exDM69 »

Symbiote wrote: post #191
exDM69 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't too much to spend on a bike. My bike is more than that and isn't special in any way, just a good regular bike. And I just use it to ride to work, this isn't anything I'm enthusiastic about. Add the bags/panniers, lights, pump, clothing and other accessories on top. I get about 100 miles a week, 8-9 months a year so it justifies the investment.

I'd say anyone who has special clothing for cycling is an enthusiast, particularly if it's more than $50 worth.

I don't have that either. Just some gear to withstand light rain and cold. Nothing that's especially made for cycling, I use this with other outdoors activities too. My way to work is too long to comfortably ride in work clothes. Imagine riding 8 miles in your jeans and sweater and then sitting in front of the computer all day in the same clothes after that.

You're trying to label people "cycling enthusiasts" in your heads (and I know exactly the stereotype you're thinking of). They do exist, but for most people riding a bike, it's just their daily commute. It might need a decent bike and a few items of clothing.

You don't call every car owner a "car enthusiast" even though taking the train/bus is a viable option in many places of the world and owning a car is much more expensive than a bike.

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#197

Post by seanp2k2 »

recursive wrote: post #167
methehack wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point here is that I have always found it so completely unfathomable that someone would spend so much time on an activity -- any activity -- and then cheat. Cheating is about looking better, not being better. At the same time, it robs others, equally devoted, of a fair basis of comparison. That it ever happens is amazing to me; yet, it happens all the time at the highest levels of competition. And it happens in ac…

Pro athletes aren't just motivated by an intrinsic desire to do the best they can. There is an external pressure to win. It's a real pressure with money behind it. In the case of cycling, teams are supported by sponsors out of their marketing budget. They would like to see their names in the press. (associated with a win obviously, not a cheating scandal)

Apparently there may also be an aspect of gambling and/or mafia involvement in cyclocross as well: http://fittish.deadspin.com/professional-cyclist-gets-six-ye...

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#198

Post by seanp2k2 »

kpil wrote: post #84
jobigoud wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most probably not. It's pretty clear in the FranceTV video (It's in French though) in the section starting at 14:40 https://youtu.be/e0s2yo6ws9U?t=884 Starting at 17:00, he describes an electro-magnetic wheel, Lipos inside the tube, magnets all around the wheel, remote controlled by a wristwatch. Priced 50K€ at 200K€, can't possibly be used for casual cycling.

I was thinking that I wanted to build that motor using magnets, hot glue, coils, and an Arduino... Can't be that hard can it...

It's worth 50-200k when you can make it look exactly like a non-motorized wheel in front of many spectators and race inspectors :) if you don't mind people seeing the motor, there are tons of DIYs in the hundreds to single-thousands of dollars range depending on how far and how fast you'd like to go: https://m.reddit.com/r/ebikes/ etc

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#199

Post by seanp2k2 »

alistairSH wrote: post #74
celticninja wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but casual cyclists will not pay €2499 for the pleasure of doing so

It depends how you define "casual". I tend to think of casual cyclists as avid cyclists who don't race. Anybody who isn't avid is just a guy/gal on a bike. By that definition, casual cyclists spend ridiculous amounts of money on cycling kit. $2000 for a set of carbon fiber wheels. $1000 for a power meter. Trek has a custom line of bikes (Project One) that retail in the $7000-$15000 range (US).

In Silicon Valley, I see people all the time riding >$5k bikes as commuters. It's also not uncommon to see people here riding carbon aero wheels (thousands of dollars for a set) on casual rides or getting groceries. It's the "taking the Ferrari to pick up milk". Free country and all, I just find it a massive waste; they'd be better off with some sew-ups and light rims instead of deep-section carbon jobs, but I guess they do it for the bling more than the performance.

Re: Hidden motors in cycling: Van den Dreissche banned for 6 years, titles stripped

#200

Post by seanp2k2 »

Coding_Cat wrote: post #113
celticninja wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but casual cyclists will not pay €2499 for the pleasure of doing so

2499 is a pretty reasonable price for an electric bike though.

There's also the power factor. These hidden motors are on the order of a few hundred watts. While enough to make a huge difference, if you want a non-hidden version, you can get a few hundred watts for a few hundred bucks: https://www.electricbike.com/12-kit-power-levels-360w-to-800... to well into the thousands of watts range for $2500. The price is because it's stealthy.
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