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Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

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Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#121

Post by brandelune »

raverbashing wrote: post #35
brandelune wrote: post #26

The author is stupid. "How about free-market policies? Here the story is more ambiguous, but I still see this as a minor factor at most." Because of such neoliberal policies, 40% of the work force is now on irregular lowest wage jobs with no job security whatsoever, no medical coverage/pension at all. Neoliberal policies of the last 2 decades are destroying what boosted Japan prosperity and stability. The author live…

I'm so glad we can take whatever you say at face value with no references whatsoever (not surprising, because most of the wining about neoliberalism does not hold water) and the author is stupid because doesn't agree with you You should move to Venezuela, they're shunning neoliberalism (and also basic necessities like food and electricity)

Google is your friend.

And there are plenty of Japanese news papers with English editions so you have no excuse.

The author is stupid because he considers as "minor" what is the major cause of poverty in Japan: low wages and no social coverage whatsoever directly caused by Koizumi's lift on irregular jobs contracts, and a huge increase in such low paid jobs as a replacement for a normally paid and work force (I wrote 40%, that's the current figure).

The author is also stupid because he equates poverty to delinquency, but he does not check simple facts like: suicide rate, domestic violence, child abuse, sexual abuse and other social issues. Here again the rates have been on the increase for the last 2 decades.

And I've been in Japan for close to 20 years, I have three kids here and I happen to read the news in Japanese because I'm a translator.

The author does not know anything about Japan and had no idea what he is writing about.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#122

Post by brandelune »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #36
brandelune wrote: post #26

The author is stupid. "How about free-market policies? Here the story is more ambiguous, but I still see this as a minor factor at most." Because of such neoliberal policies, 40% of the work force is now on irregular lowest wage jobs with no job security whatsoever, no medical coverage/pension at all. Neoliberal policies of the last 2 decades are destroying what boosted Japan prosperity and stability. The author live…

> The author lives in a dream world where Japan has always been a country with low criminality, obedient citizen etc. But that is only the product of the after-war and the massive US investments to make Japan the first barrier against Asian communism. The author is correct about this. Check out criminality in communist China and Vietnam. Check out criminality in American Japanese who left Japan prior to WWII.

Is correct about what ? You equate American Japanese to Japanese in Japan ? You never hear about the Yakuza, the bosozoku ? The revolts at the beginning of the 20th century ? The joke here is that they have such a low criminality because the cops don't have any incentive to arrest people. Indeed, the economics of policing in Japan put quite a burden on police departments who'd rather ask people to not do the same stupid thing again than arrest them for petty thing like is done in the US.

Oh, and comparing criminality rates in the US to any other country in the world is pretty stupid too.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#123

Post by brandelune »

bcook wrote: post #30
brandelune wrote: post #26

The author is stupid. "How about free-market policies? Here the story is more ambiguous, but I still see this as a minor factor at most." Because of such neoliberal policies, 40% of the work force is now on irregular lowest wage jobs with no job security whatsoever, no medical coverage/pension at all. Neoliberal policies of the last 2 decades are destroying what boosted Japan prosperity and stability. The author live…

If you removed "The author is stupid." from your post, I (and other "adults", assumedly) would be much more receptive to the rest of your post. (If you remove that line, I'll delete this post.)

You're free to look like an ass. But if you're suggesting that the author is not stupid, it either means that you've not read the article, or that you don't have a clue about the reality here in Japan, or that you're not very smart yourself.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#124

Post by jazzyk »

nihonde wrote: post #115
jazzyk wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can't put a price on peace of mind The peace of mind may not last too long. The Japanese public debt exceeded one quadrillion yen (US$10.46 trillion) in 2013, more than twice the annual gross domestic product of Japan [1]. >general atmosphere of civility and willingness to come together for a common cause. Yes, the US could use a bit more civility. But in Japan, the "willingness to come together" comes at a pric…

I have this thought that I want to express to you but I fear that it will prompt disagreement or come across as confrontational or dismissive when I really mean it in the spirit of compassion. I will do my best: The words you wrote reflect a state of mind that seeks a negative outcome. I'm sure you don't intend it, but you adopt a half-empty perspective. It's the same tone that the mainstream news media uses when it…

I've been to Japan a few times and I like many aspects of life there (I love Japanese art/sense of aesthetics, for example). I certainly wish the best to all humans, the Japanese people included.

But we are discussing economics, and "hope" does not work in economics. Numbers do, and they do not add up.

Japanese culture does not like confrontation and therefore it tends to hide/gloss over problems, be they economic (the last 20 years of not making bold decisions to get out of the stagnation) or managerial (see the Fukushima disaster initial cover up).

I am just providing a reality-based counterpoint to your over-romanticized, in my opinion, view on Japan. Every country/culture has their pluses/minuses.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#125

Post by SEJeff »

jazzyk wrote: post #112
nihonde wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great point about Toyotomi Hideyoshi's attempt to conquer Korean and China! I guess the legacy of the Edo period was a kind of reset on that ambition, because the country was closed and not looking for a fight. I would say it was actually the failure of the shogunate to stand up to Commodore Perry that ended Edo and kicked off the outward-looking Meiji. I'm no expert in this area, but I enjoy learning about it.

What about the post-Meiji period? The attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941 was just a misunderstood act of extending an olive branch?

Much like the Norsemen were misunderstood by the Celts/Gaels in Ireland (whom they slaughtered)

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#126

Post by nihonde »

alphonsegaston wrote: post #88
_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They've seen first-hand the folly of chasing America and Europe on their imperialist fancies." Interesting view on history.

Although this may be true for a wide swathe of Japanese citizens, the ruling party of Japan has a long history of whitewashing Japan's imperialist past, making this argument tenuous at best. Abe Shinzo's government has been actively dismantling press freedoms to quell anything resembling dissent on this front as well, while his colleagues openly reference the Nazi's rise to power as an exemplar. http://www.latimes.co…

It's an interesting problem. I don't like Abe very much, but I respect him. I wonder if most people understand what a powerful coalition he has in the current government? He is one of the most powerful leaders in the history of Japan by that measure. What makes him different is his emphasis on action. He says that he endured many years when the ruling party was hesitant to take action, and he was determined to move the nation in his time. Whether you agree with his direction or not, you have to respect his ability to push the bureaucrats. You can be sure it isn't easy to get them to do anything, and it probably looks a lot like House of Cards, but with 2000 years of subtle, nuanced culture to boot.

Anyway, Abe does nothing more effectively than towing the line for America. In terms of global stability, it's the right play.

As for apologizing, I think it's a stupid issue. Everyone who was involved in Japan's imperialist past is dead now. If every country was required to apologize on a regular schedule for its transgressions, we would never get anything done. Will Obama apologize when he visits Hiroshima this year? I don't expect him to, and I don't care if he does.

I think it's nice that he will visit, and that the leaders of the world will convene near Ise shrine, which is one of the most exceptional treasures that mankind has used its considerable skills to accomplish and preserve.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#127

Post by nihonde »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #107
nihonde wrote: post #43

It's depressing to read all the misguided commentary about Japan in western media. We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations, which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates. Japan will endure, as it has for thousands of years. I'm more worried about where America and Europe are headed. Prosperity is one thing. Greed, corruption, and exploitation are ano…

your comment is data free. The article is specifically about growing poverty, which can be quantified. It is not about how Japan is a terrible or a great place to live. For example, according to this http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/japan/ the poor in Japan live on 8.4K a year, while in Germany they live on 13k a year. Big difference

From that report, Japan's rank for household financial wealth: 3 / 36. Anyway, the OECD report is highly suspect, IMO. It certainly doesn't tell the story that I've lived.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#128

Post by nihonde »

ekianjo wrote: post #74
nihonde wrote: post #43

It's depressing to read all the misguided commentary about Japan in western media. We're talking about one of the world's oldest continuous civilizations, which currently has the longest life expectancy, and one of the lowest crime rates. Japan will endure, as it has for thousands of years. I'm more worried about where America and Europe are headed. Prosperity is one thing. Greed, corruption, and exploitation are ano…

> I would rather live in a "poor" Japan than in a "rich" America any day of the week. You can't put a price on peace of mind and the general atmosphere of civility and willingness to come together for a common cause. It's not like you have only these two choices. You can live in fast developing countries as well, or even Europe can be a fine place to live depending on your location and you wages.

I love the north of Europe. My blood and family are there. It is the only other place in the world where rational minds combine with a long, distinguished history of building on success. I hope we will find a way to share between east and west the hard lessons of our past!

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#129

Post by dastbe »

nihonde wrote: post #127
vasilipupkin wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

your comment is data free. The article is specifically about growing poverty, which can be quantified. It is not about how Japan is a terrible or a great place to live. For example, according to this http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/japan/ the poor in Japan live on 8.4K a year, while in Germany they live on 13k a year. Big difference

From that report, Japan's rank for household financial wealth: 3 / 36. Anyway, the OECD report is highly suspect, IMO. It certainly doesn't tell the story that I've lived.

if I went by the story I've lived, I would assume that everyone in America makes six figures.

I appreciate your optimism, but you can't let hope get in the way of data.

Re: Japan's Growing Poverty Defies Glib Explanations

#130

Post by panarky »

jazzyk wrote: post #124
nihonde wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this thought that I want to express to you but I fear that it will prompt disagreement or come across as confrontational or dismissive when I really mean it in the spirit of compassion. I will do my best: The words you wrote reflect a state of mind that seeks a negative outcome. I'm sure you don't intend it, but you adopt a half-empty perspective. It's the same tone that the mainstream news media uses when it…

I've been to Japan a few times and I like many aspects of life there (I love Japanese art/sense of aesthetics, for example). I certainly wish the best to all humans, the Japanese people included. But we are discussing economics, and "hope" does not work in economics. Numbers do, and they do not add up. Japanese culture does not like confrontation and therefore it tends to hide/gloss over problems, be they economic (t…

> "hope" does not work in economics. Numbers do, and they do not add up.

Economics is not about math, precise and inevitable. Economics is about people and their social interactions.

Economists try to model social interactions with numbers, but don't mistake the map for the territory.

What does it mean in human terms that Japan has high debt? Is your argument that Japan will inevitably default? Sophisticated traders are willing to lend more money for 30 years at less than half a percent interest [1], so smart people must judge default risk to be very low.

Is your argument that somehow Japan is doomed because of this debt? Even if they default, what does that really mean on a human level? Would millions starve? Would society collapse?

Maybe Japan's history, customs, language and social cohesion are worth more than you think.

And, just for the record, Western stereotypes of Japan as a collectivist society are no longer true [2].

[1] http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds/government-bond...

[2] http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2015/03/japan-is-not-coll...

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