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Being a Developer After 40

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Re: Being a Developer After 40

#431

Post by Karunamon »

okreallywtf wrote: post #363

Did I just stumble on slashdot? I much prefer the discourse on HN but the reaction to "PC culture" and "White privilege" is basically the same everywhere. It has never been supposed to mean anything about an individual, and yet that is ALWAYS how it seems to be taken. We (as white and or males) can't help but see things from our individual perspective and take offense at the implication we ever had anything easier th…

yet that is ALWAYS how it seems to be taken

This is a clue that perhaps your terminology is loaded, inflammatory, and should be changed.

I find that there's very little value in reasoning about race as a collective, since it's usually just a (overly) reductive variable for socioeconomic status, upbringing, or environment. If you mean those things, say those things. Attaching a racial modifier to a term and then expecting members of that race to not feel described or targeted by it makes no sense.

(And that goes double when that term is used, often, as an attack, not in the thoughtful way you describe, but that is a rant for another time.)

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#432

Post by alexandercrohde »

---Disobey authority. Say “fuck you, I won’t do what you tell me” and change jobs.

Challenge authority, but don't be an ass about it. Simply try to help them understand that you are doing them a favor by challenging them. Perhaps say, "Do you mind if I weigh in on that?" If they aren't interested in your opinion still follow up with "I understand you've thought about this, but I've also given this a lot of thought and I also have a lot of experience around this and I've seen it be a problem before."

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#433

Post by magni- »

nucleardonuts wrote: post #224

I grow weary of hearing about "white privilege". I likewise grow weary of any of today's politically correct messages: women in combat, bathroom bills, work quotas, transvestite rights. It's all BS. I grew up a military brat. We didn't have a lot of money. I wore hand-me-downs, had iron-on patches on my knees. My family could not afford to send me to college, so I served in the military to get the GI Bill and worked…

Your whole argument is a strawman. "I didn't grow up a millionaire" doesn't mean that your life would have been the same had you been black, all else equal.

Take a step back and don't be so defensive: "white privilege" isn't a personal attack. It's only meant to raise awareness, awareness that you clearly need, based on your post.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#434

Post by flexie »

wavefunction wrote: post #374
flexie wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, please. From my experience living in the US and now living in the capital of Bulgaria I know that the price of food, housing etc. is way lower here than in the valley or NYC. Easily 3 times cheaper. And the tax is lower too. But don't take my word for it: https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/sofia/s... ? A decent full stack developer in his early 20s with no or little college education and 2-4 yea…

>>now living in the capital of Bulgaria I know that the price of food, housing etc. is way lower here than in the valley or NYC. Easily 3 times cheaper You're comparing two of the most expensive places in the world to Bulgaria, it's likely that your statement is true of many parts of the US.

But also two of the places in the world that pays developers best. I bet developers in Oklahoma City are paid much less than in SF or NYC in average. So the main point stands.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#435

Post by magni- »

It's sad that the majority of the discussion from this post is people misunderstanding the term "white privilege" and getting so defensive about it.

Changing topics: that was a great read. The links were also great reads and rereads. What do people think of Joel's six mistakes from the "great software takes ten years", sixteen years later? http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000017.html

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#436

Post by JohnBooty »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #405
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. The term is just too loaded, designed to irritate. For instance the 'privilege' part. A word loaded to mean 'undeserved advantage'. The advantages are supposed to accrue to everyone; being white means being a whole person. Being black means having less than that. But the differences aren't undeserved; they are owed to everybody. So the term seems to call out white people for stealing stuff they aren't entitle…

Lets reverse it. How does "minority disadvantage" sound?

For years we've talked about "disadvantaged" people. Which is fine, but focusing on disadvantaged people allows whites like me to conveniently ignore the fact that we have advantages.

It's an uncomfortable term, and to be honest, confronting your privileges should be uncomfortable. Darn right it's not fun to look at your life situation and think: "Well, I truly worked my ass off and tried to treat everybody well. But, in addition to my merits and hard work, what other things did I benefit from?"

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#437

Post by duderific »

sickbeard wrote: post #142
s3nnyy wrote: post #43

"Say 'I won’t do what you tell me' and change jobs. There are fantastic workplaces out there; not a lot, but they exist. [...] Do not let a bad job kill your enthusiasm. It is not worth it. Disobey and move on." Especially Europeans have problems thinking like this. I always advise engineers to keep on looking for better offers / jobs the moment they take a new job. Instead many hibernate in a job for 3-5 years witho…

Why is it a thing to change jobs every 3-5 years. Seems like only a software developer thing

3-5 years? Try 1-2. The reason is that there are a lot of opportunities, and it gets boring to work on the same thing for a long time. Also you can learn more different things and fill out your resume by changing jobs more often.

That said, I personally prefer to stay at a job for at least three years, given the opportunity.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#438

Post by pasquinelli »

"you were, are and will be a software developer, that is, a relatively expensive factory worker, whose tasks your managers would be happy to offshore no matter what they tell you."

this is exactly my experience. writing software really doesn't require any great creative mind or cleverness. i'm a pretty mediocre programmer. i got roped into programming as a kid by, first of all because i wanted to make video games, but then once i'd dipped my toe in i found learning new, exotic (seeming) ideas and making clever solutions to problems was a lot of fun in and of itself. but i can think of only one time i got paid to do anything that felt like that: working on a tetris game with bombliss, without the official tetris rules. the rules of tetris are surprisingly deep and refined, in case you didn't know, so that endeavor was utterly insane and disastrous, which was the general character of the company i was working for. but still, it was a lot of fun playing physicist from the tetris universe, trying to infer the rules through experimentation.

to write software, once you have the skill down, is really just about doing the work. it doesn't require any insight, unless you intend to write good software, but no one cares about good software. no cares about the software at all. they have things they want to do, and the software, the making of it, is, if anything an impediment. so is the person making it.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#439

Post by d4rkph1b3r »

CamperZero wrote: post #421
african_cheetah wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everyone has the same opportunities. Not really. That's what it means. Being white makes it slightly easier to get some opportunities.

Two people of the same socioeconomic standing but of different races. One has a lower bar to entry into college because of affirmative action and a easier time getting a high paying job because of diversity needs. Who has the privilege here?

Trick question, nobody fucking knows without knowing their entire history.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#440

Post by Shorel »

rantanplan wrote: post #70
greenspot wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just gave yourself the counter-argument: > The market will balance this out. The employer can also and usually choose between different candidates and maybe there are some or many equally skilled professionals in country x offering their work for much less (because they can because of lower living costs). So, it's reasonable to ask for a lower price in such a context. It's not about disdain. EDIT: why the downvot…

How's that a counter-argument? My argument is that "offer me whatever you want; I'll accept whatever I want". I don't need a justification or a lecture on why I should consider your offer as a generous one. That's how much you can give for my services at a certain point in time. Even if I consider your offer low, I won't find it insulting. But I will find it insulting if you think that I should accept your offer beca…

Both arguments are the same, by rejecting the offer, you, as part of the market, are deciding and affecting the market itself.
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