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Being a Developer After 40

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Re: Being a Developer After 40

#361

Post by jazzyk »

kelukelugames wrote: post #254
gedy wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you know what? We're doing it wrong. How about you just call it "privilege" and leave it at that? This skin color labelling is pointless in the context of real privilege. A "woman of color" who grew up with servants in her birth country, went to private schools, top colleges, etc has a better chance at the C-suite than a Eastern European "white guy" who grew up poor and went to state schools etc.

Just like a white man can suffer from socio-economic disadvantages, a woman of color can benefit from class privilege. Who do you think it's going to have an easier life? Obama's daughters or some boys from the Appalachia region? It's unfair to discuss gender and race without considering class. It is also unfair to claim disadvantage in one without acknowledging benefits from the other two. This is also the biggest c…

Agree on the class aspect, but it is a bit more nuanced:

It really is a question of your family's values, not finances. I know a few affluent families who don't really value education, and there is enough money for the kids to live off of the family fortune (aka "trust fund kids").

Kids born into white trash families and black-ghetto families are equally fucked, not because they are poor (though it does not help), but because they don't have the values and successful role models to follow/ motivate them.

It is not an easy problem to solve - but that's a whole other discussion.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#362

Post by dradtke »

frostymarvelous wrote: post #271
ManlyBread wrote: post #105

The article was pretty good until this part. >If you are a white male remember all the privilege you have enjoyed since birth just because you were born that way. It is your responsibility to change the industry and its bias towards more inclusion. I'm from an Eastern Europe and my family never was rich, I had to put in a tremendous effort to even get into the industry. Assuming I got an easy ride simply because I'm…

You won't understand because you fall in that category. But trust when it's said. You avoid certain challenges because of your race and sex and that is a given. That said, that doesn't mean that you sailed through life on a magic carpet with things handed to you.

> that doesn't mean that you sailed through life on a magic carpet with things handed to you.

See, this is why people get frustrated when people tell them to check their privilege. White men are told all the time that they have life so easy, but almost never have their own frustrations or life experiences validated. I'm very grateful for everything I've had relatively easy in life (loving parents who never divorced and not worrying about having dinner each night, among others), but life still isn't easy, and it's frustrating feeling like there's nothing to complain about because of how you were born.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#363

Post by okreallywtf »

Did I just stumble on slashdot? I much prefer the discourse on HN but the reaction to "PC culture" and "White privilege" is basically the same everywhere.

It has never been supposed to mean anything about an individual, and yet that is ALWAYS how it seems to be taken. We (as white and or males) can't help but see things from our individual perspective and take offense at the implication we ever had anything easier than anyone else.

I agree with others in the thread, we just need to throw away the word white privilege and come up with something else because it has been totally poisoned. I'm not saying there aren't overzealous "social justice warriors" that haven't contributed to the misunderstanding of the word.

Just remember, when people use the word white privilege, THEY ARE NOT REFERRING TO YOU AS AN INDIVIDUAL FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#364

Post by wrsh07 »

Domenic_S wrote: post #350
JohnBooty wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bingo. Race is just one facet anyway. There's no part of examining privilege that says race is the only facet of one's existence soooooo at least you don't disagree with it there. To even make a statement like that is like getting mad at "breast cancer awareness" because "it's not the only kind of cancer." I can't emphasize enough that literally nobody is claiming that race is the only facet of one's existence.

The only facet that matters, then? Or, combined with gender the only facets that matter or let you be a part of the discussion? I've been told off + blocked on twitter for chiming in about something I have intimate personal experience with, because white male. Or the semi-famous video "you're a WHITE MALE!" (language warning) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0diJNybk0Mw

Of course it's not the only facet that matters. And I think that minorities want white males to be a part of the discussion about race.

However, oftentimes white males say the same exact things. You can kind of enumerate them, "Not all white males," "White people can be poor," "Hey, you're black, can you explain...?" etc.

Many answers to these questions can be found here: http://theteej.tumblr.com/post/122334039549/hi-white-friends...

I don't expect you to read it. But if you want to understand why people get frustrated when you chime in about something it's probably because they've heard the thing that you're saying a gazillion times already and are tired of responding to it. They don't owe you a response.

Finally, I'll reference John Green and say that if you're doing something that multiple people tell you is offensive or bothersome: Stop doing it.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#365

Post by JoeAltmaier »

okreallywtf wrote: post #363

Did I just stumble on slashdot? I much prefer the discourse on HN but the reaction to "PC culture" and "White privilege" is basically the same everywhere. It has never been supposed to mean anything about an individual, and yet that is ALWAYS how it seems to be taken. We (as white and or males) can't help but see things from our individual perspective and take offense at the implication we ever had anything easier th…

Yet they chose language to provode and humiliate. I'll suggest another phrase: white slavemaster rules. You there, you're benefiting from white slavemaster rules. Don't blame me, I'm not referring to you as an individual for the love of god! Boy those white guys bristle easily, you can't talk to them.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#366

Post by gremy0 »

mgkimsal wrote: post #257
MyDamnUser wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I speak as a white male who grew up in the 80s and in to technology. I certainly remember it was not 'cool' to be in to computers/tech back then (not like now) but there should be little disagreement that being male was not a hindrance for most desired walks of life (whereas being female, moreso then, definitely was). Really? I physically got my ass kicked every single day. At one point it was so bad i had to get sh…

I never said I was never bullied or beat up. I was. I'm not sure where anyone is saying that white males never experience any hardship. I'm pretty sure no one is saying that, except people that want to argue with the term "white male privilege". Everyday things like going to a store, going to a bank, taking out a car loan, going to a movie all, on the whole, in the united states in the last 50-100 years, tend to be l…

What are you on about. You've just admitted that this privilege only applies to a subset of activities, in a specific country for a very brief period of time.

Yet you where the one slapping it on people telling them they've benefited from it. You don't know that. You can't know that. You're using a race and gender targeted generalization which is the problem in the first place. Stop.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#367

Post by donohoe »

ManlyBread wrote: post #105

The article was pretty good until this part. >If you are a white male remember all the privilege you have enjoyed since birth just because you were born that way. It is your responsibility to change the industry and its bias towards more inclusion. I'm from an Eastern Europe and my family never was rich, I had to put in a tremendous effort to even get into the industry. Assuming I got an easy ride simply because I'm…

I really just want to echo what johnBooty (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11571398) said and add my 2 cents.

Short version: I'm Irish, former illegal immigrant, naturalized citizen, pay my taxes, have a family, and consider myself a moderate success etc.

I worked very, very hard to get to here I am now, but I guarantee you that that fact that I am white (and spoke English as a first language helped too) played its part too.

It exists, it is a thing, and we're obligated to do our best to make things better for everyone along thew way.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#368

Post by ElComradio »

JohnBooty wrote: post #330
blub wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The privilege you enjoy you do not enjoy because of being a white male, but rather because you're part of one of the dominant social groups. If you go to another country you'll see that people do treat you differently and might discriminate against you depending on your sex/looks/ancestry/etc. Those that are different always have some disadvantages. We should be working towards fair societies, not replacing one type…

I don't understand how recognizing my privilege as a white male in America equates to discrimination. Can you explain in detail?

It's simply intractable to add up everyone's advantages and disadvantages; it's the wrong path to focus on group attributes/trends when you start talking about individuals.

I could clamor for tall rich sportsmen to "send the elevator down for me". That it's their responsibility and so on. What you should do is reflect on exactly why you'd think I should feel silly for saying that, and the other guy to not. Would you tell Michael Jordan to check his privilege if he told a group of average white male nerds to reflect on theirs?

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#369

Post by JohnBooty »

geofft wrote: post #286
mhurron wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> basic rights we take for granted (for example, walking into a store and not being treated as a potential thief, or having prospective interviewers assume we're professional/literate/presentable) are actually privileges that many people or color don't have. You are aware that Irish and Eastern Europeans, and on and off through history Greek and Italian, have had all those same problems right? You know that 'White Pr…

I was going to say something about how I occasionally use the phrase "white privilege" and I agree with you, but I think I actually just tend to use "privilege". You're right, in different times and places there's a lot of change in who is privileged. And it's definitely not a two-level system. I don't think the word "privilege" necessarily implies it, but it's used like that a lot, and I think that's unfortunate, an…

I think I agree. Ultimately it's all about recognizing one's privileges, whatever they are.

Re: Being a Developer After 40

#370

Post by MisterBastahrd »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #225
JohnBooty wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from an Eastern Europe and my family never was rich, I had to put in a tremendous effort to even get into the industry. Assuming I got an easy ride simply because I'm white is a pretty racist statement I was about to patiently type out another "hey, you did work hard and you did earn your success - 'white privilege' doesn't mean things were handed to you easily; it means that even though your life has been hard y…

Agreed. The term is just too loaded, designed to irritate. For instance the 'privilege' part. A word loaded to mean 'undeserved advantage'. The advantages are supposed to accrue to everyone; being white means being a whole person. Being black means having less than that. But the differences aren't undeserved; they are owed to everybody. So the term seems to call out white people for stealing stuff they aren't entitle…

Designed to irritate?

Good. Maybe it's a start of a conversation. What white people have SHOULD not be an undeserved advantage, but that's not the reality we live in.

Imagine being black with a black sounding name, or latino with a latino sounding name, and having to deal with people making fun of the name you didn't choose while growing up, and then having to deal with the consequences of discrimination when it comes to just getting your foot in the door.

You only have to deal with the annoyance when you hear the term. Other races and ethnicities don't get that luxury. Seems to me that the term is perfectly, and ironically, apt.

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