Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't have sex with someone who is under the influence of drugs or alcohol? Edit: I think you are referring to this: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6958799/City-lawye... If no rape is found to have occurred, which seems likely given there were police witnesses, then that lady is going to be in a world of bother. Firstly, it will have meant that she has appealed against a sentence, which means if it didn't…
Pretty much. But damn, if I were a young male today, I would probably require proof of consent from prospective partners. Maybe a signed affidavit, blood sample and affidavits of competent witnesses. Or maybe just forget the whole premarital sex thing. Too dangerous anymore, in so many ways.
College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)
111–120 of 229 posts
Re: College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the UK, there have been several examples of a woman getting drunk, having apparently consensual sex and then deciding the next day that she was raped. The male now has to prove that sex was consensual. The woman gets lifetime anonymity and the male has to undergo a public trial, almost always with commensurate loss of reputation and employment, even if later proven to be innocent. There is a very recent example wh…
Don't have sex with someone who is under the influence of drugs or alcohol? Edit: I think you are referring to this: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6958799/City-lawye... If no rape is found to have occurred, which seems likely given there were police witnesses, then that lady is going to be in a world of bother. Firstly, it will have meant that she has appealed against a sentence, which means if it didn't…
Re: College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)
#113Should more of the disciplinary action [involving criminal activity] be moved from the purview of colleges to the courts? I can see this making sense not only for cases of allegations of rape but also allegations of censorship, bias, underage drinking, etc. Sometimes colleges exercise a little too much discretion in adjudication. On the other hand, if we move not only grievous allegations but other less grave cases t…
Greg Lukianoff wants to sue the department of education [1]. He just needs a case. Here is his org's free speech case list [2], and here's another clip of him talking about it [3]
Laws do not enforce themselves. People need to make an effort to bring cases to court when there are injustices.
The video clips are from the time of BLM protests at Yale at the end of 2015. Students were upset about an email from a faculty member who suggested that, while certain racist halloween costumes were ill-advised, they aren't against the law and other students should learn to deal with them peacefully.
BLM students were in an uproar and saw this email as an approval of costumes like black face. The Yale President came out in support of the protesters. Erika Christakis, the author of the email, eventually resigned, despite support from thefire.org and others. Greg predicted this [4]
The same thing happened around the time of the Vietnam war at Yale. Some guy named Shockley was invited to talk about eugenics. The idea was to allow his bad ideas to be heard so that he could hang himself. But some students protested and would not let him speak. Here's the full story [5]. The culmination of that episode was a report from a newly created committee on Freedom of Expression, led by Vann Woodward, also known as the Woodward report [6]. Its final paragraph reads,
> The conclusions we draw, then, are these: even when some members of the university community fail to meet their social and ethical responsibilities, the paramount obligation of the university is to protect their right to free expression. This obligation can and should be enforced by appropriate formal sanctions. If the university's overriding commitment to free expression is to be sustained, secondary social and ethical responsibilities must be left to the informal processes of suasion, example, and argument.
So that all sounds good. Lukianoff and thefire.org argue that Yale's administrators haven't been living up to the actions suggested by the report.
Contrast this to how Columbia handled a visit by Ahmadinejad. Many people felt very strongly he should not be allowed to speak at such a reputable institution. Yet, they allowed it, and now he's on record saying that Iran has no gay people. It was an absurd thing to argue. Those who invited him knew he was going to say it. They wanted him to share his true feelings, hear foreigners' reactions, and give more of the world a chance to hear and talk about that viewpoint.
[1] https://youtu.be/qGnNKmR1EEc?t=57m02s
[2] https://www.thefire.org/category/cases/free-speech/
[3] https://youtu.be/qGnNKmR1EEc?t=20m40s
[4] https://youtu.be/qGnNKmR1EEc?t=17m32s
[5] http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2008/02/05/william-shockl...
[6] http://yalecollege.yale.edu/faculty-staff/faculty/policies-r...
Re: College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)
#114Re: College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't taking all reasonable steps to ascertain consent what the affirmative consent thing is all about? It's one of those sensible things, like recycling, renewable energy, belief in evolution, or decent medical coverage, that somehow becomes a very bitter political issue for no logical reason.
Is requiring consent at every sexual escalation practical? Do affirmative consent campaigners encourage women having sex with men to obtain affirmative consent when the woman escalates?
Re: College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can't "unknowingly" commit theft (intent to dishonestly permanently deprive), emezzlement (intent to deceive) or murder (intent to unlawfully kill someone).
As a clear counterexample: you can certainly commit negligent homicide without intending to.
Re: College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not true. The FBI's definition is: "The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim." [1] 1. https://www.justice.gov/opa/blog/updated-definition-rape
FBI's definition does not apply in England.
This means the definition of rape depends on the country you are in. For the UK I think it's really arguing semantics though, because it is defined as "assault by penetration" and has the same penalties as rape. [1]
1. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/part/1/crosshead...
Re: College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I know. That's why I'm still sympathetic to the view. I would hope that we could still have the tribunals but treat their findings for what they are: the non-professional opinions of a few administrators, based mostly on informal testimony, hearsay, and perhaps a poorly-executed investigation. But, perhaps there is no way to accomplish that in a way palatable to most people attending a school. Maybe people are…
There is really no way to solve this problem when you have basically one person’s word against another. I really feel for the victims, but I don’t know what can be done when the consequences of getting a conviction wrong are so high.
But yeah, rape cases are always going to have the lowest rate of conviction because most of the time they fall to he said/she said.
I agree, it really sucks for the victims, and as you say the consequences of getting a conviction wrong are so high, and for these reasons we really need to fight these infantizing statements like "we need to listen to the woman's perspective". We do need to listen to victims, and provide them appropriate support but we can't compromise on justice.
Re: College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
No other comments have directly addressed the quote you referenced. My interpretation is it is saying that rape cases are prosecuted about the intent of the perpetrator. Aka, they are convicted if it can be shown that they intended to commit rape, or knowingly committed rape, and acquited otherwise. This puts the standard of conviction much higher than other crimes, because lots of crimes can be committed unknowingly…
It's perfectly possible for someone to be raped without their partner being the rapist. For example, imagine two people enjoy rape roleplay, but don't decide on a safe-word. In the middle of the act, the receiving partner changes their mind and starts screaming "no" and "stop". The giving partner interprets this as part of the roleplay, which makes perfect sense, and continues. Who's guilty/victim here? (Hint: it's a…
Re: College Sex-Assault Trials Belong in Court, Not Campus (2014)
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't taking all reasonable steps to ascertain consent what the affirmative consent thing is all about? It's one of those sensible things, like recycling, renewable energy, belief in evolution, or decent medical coverage, that somehow becomes a very bitter political issue for no logical reason.
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"Affirmative consent is a knowing, voluntary, and mutual decision among all participants to engage in sexual activity. Consent can be given by words or actions, as long as those words or actions create clear permission regarding willingness to engage in the sexual activity. Silence or lack of resistance, in and of itself, does not demonstrate consent. The definition of consent does not vary based upon a participant's sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, or gender expression." -- http://system.suny.edu/sexual-violence-prevention-workgroup/...