Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO • Hacker News Board

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#71

Post by intrasight » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 2:54 PM UTC

strictnein wrote: post #62

pj_mukh wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they could've focussed on making the credentials valuable (maybe they did and it didn't work). AFAIK, if you told an employer you have a "nanodegree" in something or other, its glossed over. Usually, you have to back it up with real-world projects. In which case why would I pay for the degree, I should just go out and build something with the stuff I learn for free.

Some NSA job listings have mentioned Coursera's (and others) Data Science specializations. > "Completion of a data science certificate program (online or other) may replace 1 year of relevant experience. Some examples of data science certificate programs include those offered by Cloudera, Coursera, Indiana University-Bloomington, and University of California-Irvine." Data Scientist - Entry Level: https://www.nsa.gov/…

I looked at their Data Science degree (am still looking). It appears to be a quality offering.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#72

Post by KKKKkkkk1 » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 3:00 PM UTC

strictnein wrote: post #62

pj_mukh wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they could've focussed on making the credentials valuable (maybe they did and it didn't work). AFAIK, if you told an employer you have a "nanodegree" in something or other, its glossed over. Usually, you have to back it up with real-world projects. In which case why would I pay for the degree, I should just go out and build something with the stuff I learn for free.

Some NSA job listings have mentioned Coursera's (and others) Data Science specializations. > "Completion of a data science certificate program (online or other) may replace 1 year of relevant experience. Some examples of data science certificate programs include those offered by Cloudera, Coursera, Indiana University-Bloomington, and University of California-Irvine." Data Scientist - Entry Level: https://www.nsa.gov/…

The US government has a lot of trouble hiring qualified scientists in the high-end disciplines because (a) It is not willing to pay market salaries; and (b) It artificially restricts the candidate pool to US citizens who are able (and willing) to pass security clearance. So I wouldn't be surprised if they'd be hiring data scientists straight out of community college.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#73

Post by vox_mollis » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 3:01 PM UTC

RyanZAG wrote: post #11

cinquemb wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who would have guessed that the new online education revolution™, where effectiveness is measured in similar status/signaling games, would pander to the status quo? That being said, there's an amazing wealth of knowledge on the internet completely free to consume not locked behind any particular walled garden awaiting those who dare step out of their comfort zones of consumption/absorption, but its not nicely package…

The issue here is that going through a professional institution is the difference between being a 'self taught amateur' and a 'well studied professional'. Even if both people are equally capable, the one with the paperwork is going to have a far easier time getting a job through traditional channels. Even if you plan on being an entrepreneur, your first media coverage is either going to say 'the Harvard graduate' or…

the one with the paperwork is going to have a far easier time getting a job through traditional channels.

We're definitely in the minority, but some of us in hiring positions actively discriminate against the didn't-learn-until-college demographic for software developers.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#74

Post by ghaff » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 3:01 PM UTC

robbiemitchell wrote: post #65

ghaff wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a structured learning view of the world rather than professor- or student-centric. The issue is that, if you take away all structure, you also tend to take away most real-time interactions (which admittedly are a serious weakness of MOOCs anyway) and you end up with an experience that's not much different from reading a book and/or watching online video talks/lectures/documentaries/etc. or, indeed, just doing so…

There must be other ways to provide structure than one built around a fixed schedule oriented around when a professor is delivering lectures, no? Simple ideas: - Rolling start dates - Weekly collaboration days/times where all students who happen to be at a shared point in the course, or a shared point in their understanding of the material, discuss These have their own drawbacks, too, but they're possible. Especially…

Fair enough. Part of the problem is that the things (like collaboration) that do depend on some sort of synchronization are also the things that probably work worst in MOOCs. I've pretty much given up on MOOC forums beyond anything related to technical or other issues with some aspect of the course. As actual discussion forums, I find them near worthless for a variety of reasons.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#75

Post by Programmatic » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 3:30 PM UTC

intrasight wrote: post #71

strictnein wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some NSA job listings have mentioned Coursera's (and others) Data Science specializations. > "Completion of a data science certificate program (online or other) may replace 1 year of relevant experience. Some examples of data science certificate programs include those offered by Cloudera, Coursera, Indiana University-Bloomington, and University of California-Irvine." Data Scientist - Entry Level: https://www.nsa.gov/…

I looked at their Data Science degree (am still looking). It appears to be a quality offering.

I began the JHU Data Scientist Specialization on Coursera and worked through the Data Scientists Toolbox and R Programming classes, but found them a bit lackluster in their presentation.

The course content (videos, slides) presents some basics with a large emphasis on having a "hacker ethos" to do more work and digging on your own to be successful. The quizzes and projects in the R course demanded the use of techniques that were outside of the content provided in the lecture. I am not against having a hacker ethos and personally am happy to research and learn on my own, but I fail to see the logic in charging money to tell people to Google. I expect a curriculum to be a self-contained unit of learning, or else I wouldn't bother with curriculum.

Contrast this to Coursera's excellent (and free) Rice University Interactive Python Programming classes that are really superb. The Rice University team put together an online Python interpreter complete with graphics capability so that students could test each other's code. The R class left peer review of students' code as "do not run the code, eyeball it and see if it looks right". I understand why they did it (execution of potentially harmful code), but Rice's solution was elegant.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#76

Post by canistr » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 3:37 PM UTC

nkozyra wrote: post #43

dikaiosune wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you rate the rest of the experience?

Not the addressee but it's spectacular all around. There are a few classes that have a reputation for being poorly designed/maintained and a few with somewhat "unreasonable" time requirements (ie 50 hours a week for a single class). There are classes where you only interact with TAs/students (which is fine) and some where the professor is seemingly on a 24-hour modafinil drip, there to answer any question posed at an…

Interestingly enough, I recall Thrun mentioning some failures with a university partnership on This Week in Startups.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHkbKXhihLk

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#77

Post by amttc » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 4:00 PM UTC

jonkiddy wrote: post #44

canistr wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a current Georgia Tech student doing the Online Master's in CS, I wonder this too because it's the primary method of delivery for lectures. For the most part, I'm not crazy about the Udacity platform and the lectures (they're too short, the mini-quizzes aren't always that great, and the platform doesn't feel like it has been improving in the past 2 years). However, all the value and learning is coming from the int…

I'm also a Georgia Tech OMSCS student. I'm really enjoying the program. I found Udacity/Piazza to be adequate as a student while using my laptop. However, my wish is for the OMSCS program to embrace mobile as a viable method of consuming course content. Which isn't the case currently and rather disappointing as I travel quite a bit.

Also an OMSCS student. Funny. On my iPad, it's less than straightforward to use Udacity on the website, and I've never been able to get the mobile app for the GT login. I have my IOS course bookmarked so I can watch the lectures on my tablet.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#78

Post by amttc » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 4:09 PM UTC

dikaiosune wrote: post #17

canistr wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a current Georgia Tech student doing the Online Master's in CS, I wonder this too because it's the primary method of delivery for lectures. For the most part, I'm not crazy about the Udacity platform and the lectures (they're too short, the mini-quizzes aren't always that great, and the platform doesn't feel like it has been improving in the past 2 years). However, all the value and learning is coming from the int…

How would you rate the rest of the experience?

I'm an OMSCS student. Udacity is fine. It serves its purpose. Sometimes it looks like the poor instructors are getting a double whammy of Georgia heat and hot spotlights, but the lectures are pretty high quality.

I'm not too far into the program, but the courses I've seen are built around readings, projects, and Piazza (a student forum for us to talk to each other in). Piazza is where most of the interesting stuff happens. For my class, there's the professor but also 5-10 TAs who are swarming Piazza at most hours of the day responding to questions. Once a week, there are office hours for a couple hours hosted on Hangouts. There's your normal midterm and final exam, but the courses seem very much structured around deadlines rather than mandatory participation week to week.

It's been good thusfar.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#79

Post by mindcrime » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 4:38 PM UTC

Programmatic wrote: post #75

intrasight wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I looked at their Data Science degree (am still looking). It appears to be a quality offering.

I began the JHU Data Scientist Specialization on Coursera and worked through the Data Scientists Toolbox and R Programming classes, but found them a bit lackluster in their presentation. The course content (videos, slides) presents some basics with a large emphasis on having a "hacker ethos" to do more work and digging on your own to be successful. The quizzes and projects in the R course demanded the use of techniqu…

I am not against having a hacker ethos and personally am happy to research and learn on my own, but I fail to see the logic in charging money to tell people to Google.

I'm about halfway through the JHU Data Science program and I agree that there's a fair amount of "extra" work you have to do. But still, coming into it as somebody who had never used R at all before, I've learned a ton and have definitely found it to be worth the money I've spent (I plan to actually do the entire track and get the certificate and everything).

Now that said, I probably woulnd't pay much more than what they're charging now (I think most of these classes have been $49.00 / class so far), but at that rate, I definitely feel that it's been worthwhile. And even if it isn't a formal degree, it still gives me the ability to legitimately mention JHU on my resume. So if somebody is just quick skimming my resume to make a decision on which pile to sort it into, that probably gives mine a small nudge in favor of the "look deeper" pile.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#80

Post by ghaff » Mon, Apr 25, 2016, 4:41 PM UTC

vox_mollis wrote: post #73

RyanZAG wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue here is that going through a professional institution is the difference between being a 'self taught amateur' and a 'well studied professional'. Even if both people are equally capable, the one with the paperwork is going to have a far easier time getting a job through traditional channels. Even if you plan on being an entrepreneur, your first media coverage is either going to say 'the Harvard graduate' or…

the one with the paperwork is going to have a far easier time getting a job through traditional channels. We're definitely in the minority, but some of us in hiring positions actively discriminate against the didn't-learn-until-college demographic for software developers.

So, you believe software should be treated differently from the norm in just about every other category of engineering (and even science for the most part)?

Of course there's nothing wrong with an early interest in computers and programming. However, "actively discriminating" as you put it has the effect of effectively selecting for males from a background that enables an early interest in computers.