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Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

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Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main problem is that great courses require great faculty to create and manage them semester by semester. Udacity and the like are built on the premise that we can scale up a professor's reach by orders of magnitude. But you can't do that without losing quality. The state of online course software is such that in most cases it's a hindrance, rather than a help. Software should make our jobs easier, but for profess…

The assumption that classes should be taught on a semester ("seat time") basis, with everyone starting and stopping at the same time, is a professor-centric view of the world. A student-centric view would use technology to help students have an educational experience around their own schedule and needs (e.g., varied pace; reinforcement or skipping where appropriate).

It's a structured learning view of the world rather than professor- or student-centric.

The issue is that, if you take away all structure, you also tend to take away most real-time interactions (which admittedly are a serious weakness of MOOCs anyway) and you end up with an experience that's not much different from reading a book and/or watching online video talks/lectures/documentaries/etc. or, indeed, just doing some project. Of course, there's nothing wrong with learning that way. But, at some point, you then go--why bother with this MOOC thing anyway if I just want to learn something?

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#62
post #52
post #45

The original business model of coursera/udacity was to offer the option to take most courses for free, but require people to pay for credentials. This is not obviously a bad idea: the quality of teaching at Harvard or Stanford is probably better than that you obtain in most universities, but the one of the main added values are the network of people you meet, and the credential of having attended a very prestigious u…

Maybe they could've focussed on making the credentials valuable (maybe they did and it didn't work). AFAIK, if you told an employer you have a "nanodegree" in something or other, its glossed over. Usually, you have to back it up with real-world projects. In which case why would I pay for the degree, I should just go out and build something with the stuff I learn for free.

Some NSA job listings have mentioned Coursera's (and others) Data Science specializations.

> "Completion of a data science certificate program (online or other) may replace 1 year of relevant experience. Some examples of data science certificate programs include those offered by Cloudera, Coursera, Indiana University-Bloomington, and University of California-Irvine."

Data Scientist - Entry Level: https://www.nsa.gov/psp/applyonline/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/HRS_HRAM...

Data Scientist: https://www.nsa.gov/psp/applyonline/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/HRS_HRAM...

Might just be an indication of how desperate they are for those positions, but it could also indicate they're doing a pretty good job educating people.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#63
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> The marginal cost of producing another copy of digitally encoded product is essentially zero, and it requires zero specialist knowledge. Copying binary data is what computers are made for, it's their basic function. Plus, the Internet lets you scale a digital business to the whole world for (almost) free. Honestly, what feels entitled is expecting that one should be able to scale their business by orders of magni…

> If we apply this to the physical products, you can equally say that the companies shouldn't charge more than it costs to produce something. But if all companies worked this way, that would take us back to the stone age pretty quickly. But that's what happens in the physical world in face of competition (and that's the "great promise of capitalism", btw.) - prices fall down to minimal sustainable level unless someon…

> prices fall down to minimal sustainable level unless someone is able to erect some artificial structure

In education, the artificial structure is often exclusivity in admissions. This also works for nightclubs.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#64
post #15

I wonder what is hidden behind the phrase "the college partnerships failed". I took some great courses on Udacity, Coursera, and edX back in the days when they regularly offered amazing comprehensive college courses for free. They do still offer free courses. However, it seems that the atmosphere of free accessible education is somehow lost, with the advent of the "specializations" and "nanodegrees" and the like. Or…

I believe the failure was a reference to the failed partnership with San Jose state.. https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2013/07/18/citing-disapp...

Which, in a lot of ways, really highlighted the failure of MOOCs promoting themselves as expanding the reach of top-level education to underserved audiences. (As did Open Courseware and its ilk previously.) The problem (well, one of them) is that MOOCs didn't really help students with weak groundings in the basics and, perhaps, middling to low motivation.

Instead, if you read the stats, they largely (though not exclusively) have ended up providing ongoing professional education to a range of motivated learners who already have undergrad and advanced degrees.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#65
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The assumption that classes should be taught on a semester ("seat time") basis, with everyone starting and stopping at the same time, is a professor-centric view of the world. A student-centric view would use technology to help students have an educational experience around their own schedule and needs (e.g., varied pace; reinforcement or skipping where appropriate).

It's a structured learning view of the world rather than professor- or student-centric. The issue is that, if you take away all structure, you also tend to take away most real-time interactions (which admittedly are a serious weakness of MOOCs anyway) and you end up with an experience that's not much different from reading a book and/or watching online video talks/lectures/documentaries/etc. or, indeed, just doing so…

There must be other ways to provide structure than one built around a fixed schedule oriented around when a professor is delivering lectures, no?

Simple ideas: - Rolling start dates - Weekly collaboration days/times where all students who happen to be at a shared point in the course, or a shared point in their understanding of the material, discuss

These have their own drawbacks, too, but they're possible. Especially if the network is big enough. Once you have a bunch of students doing this, you then go--why bother affiliating with one particular university if I can get the classes I need no matter where I sit?

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#66

I don't think technology will revolutionize education the way everyone in Silicon Valley thinks it will. Accessibility issues, yes. Disrupting traditional teaching, learning, practicing....hmmm?

Real gains in educational technology will come from mediating in-person social interactions (focused on knowledge building rather than general purpose interactions, of course).

In many instances, the teacher actually knows what should be done to improve the learning of a student - but is logistically constrained from providing that level of service (Bloom's 2 sigma problem). The low hanging fruit is removing those constraints.

We will need better tools for understanding the knowledge/abilities of our students in a much more refined manner.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#67
post #6

Professor Thrun changed my life, I and many tens of thousands around the world graduated from his classes, gaining an education that would have been impossible for many of us. I am forever in his debt for his tireless work as an educator and his work on SLAM & Self Driving Cars. Being taught by practitioners at the cutting edge of research like Thrun, Norvig, Ng, & Hinton is the education I dreamed of. I hope that Ud…

It's interesting that the HN community thinks this comment should be downvoted. There's nothing wrong with it in any way.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#68
post #45

The original business model of coursera/udacity was to offer the option to take most courses for free, but require people to pay for credentials. This is not obviously a bad idea: the quality of teaching at Harvard or Stanford is probably better than that you obtain in most universities, but the one of the main added values are the network of people you meet, and the credential of having attended a very prestigious u…

What about current college students? If it were possible for a good student at _any_ school to take online courses _for credit_ at an Ivy, and perhaps to even work toward a new "dual" degree that joins both institutions, I suspect the demand would be there. They're already using borrowed money.

I agree, but I feel extremely pessimistic that typical universities will willingly accept such credits (my simple assumption being thay most universities are aimed for profit). In fact, i think most universities are focused on creating their own MOOCs to replace their own 700+ student 100-level courses instead of working towards a common MOOC offerings.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#69
post #54
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the addressee but it's spectacular all around. There are a few classes that have a reputation for being poorly designed/maintained and a few with somewhat "unreasonable" time requirements (ie 50 hours a week for a single class). There are classes where you only interact with TAs/students (which is fine) and some where the professor is seemingly on a 24-hour modafinil drip, there to answer any question posed at an…

"There are a few classes that have a reputation for being poorly designed/maintained and a few with somewhat "unreasonable" time requirements (ie 50 hours a week for a single class)." As a current Georgia Tech student, I welcome you.

Thanks, I'm more than halfway finished :)

I've often wondered what on-campus students think of the program given there are a lot of competing elements to having both at an esteemed CS school. I've tried thinking about my undergrad days and how I'd feel if there were an equivalent program.

Re: Sebastian Thrun Steps Down as Udacity's CEO

#70
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about current college students? If it were possible for a good student at _any_ school to take online courses _for credit_ at an Ivy, and perhaps to even work toward a new "dual" degree that joins both institutions, I suspect the demand would be there. They're already using borrowed money.

I agree, but I feel extremely pessimistic that typical universities will willingly accept such credits (my simple assumption being thay most universities are aimed for profit). In fact, i think most universities are focused on creating their own MOOCs to replace their own 700+ student 100-level courses instead of working towards a common MOOC offerings.

Reminds me of when every company initially tried to create its own social network :)
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