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Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

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Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#81

I'm the author of this post, happy to answer any questions. About me: I was formerly a director of product at FB and a founder of Firefox. My YC startup became FB's first acquisition. I'm focusing more on creative writing these days (wrote the Silicon Valley spec script and the Theranos parody that have come up on HN a few times.) Aphantasia was a pretty weird discovery for me given this new focus.

How do you know that you have aphantasia?

I just took the test on the BBC and got the lowest score, but I'm still not sure if I have aphantasia or not.

I can "picture" scenes in my mind. I certainly don't have a problem with imagination or thinking up different potential realities.

But the picture I have is basically a literary description. If you asked me to imagine a beach I would rapidly compose a narrative composition of said beach: there's turquoise water lapping against the sand which slopes up gradually. Oh and there's probably a rock somewhere along the shoreline. And there are some palm trees. But in my mind this process is occurring exactly how it's happening here: as text.

That being said, I remain unconvinced that I actually have aphantasia. How do I know everyone else isn't having the same experience but describing it with images?

One point is that when I tried to imagine my best friend's face I couldn't come up with more than a general description. But perhaps this is just a poor memory of faces?

Like you, I also have a terrible experiential memory. I barely remember going to high school at all and the few memories that I do have from my life are basically stories—narrative snapshots which I have verbalized enough times for them to be embedded in my mind, just like the plots of my favorite books are. I can just as easily imagine the first time I asked out a girl as when Frodo destroyed the One Ring.

Are there any more scientific tests available?

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#82
Wait, so people can actually see things in their head? Like the author, I was convinced this was a metaphor/figure of speech... Actually, I'm still a bit skeptical about whether any of this is true.

I have a sense of how things are located spatially and can recall features of things I have verbally described to myself, but there is no way I can see anything that's not before my eyes.

Not sure if that's related, but I have a very bad sense of direction, especially when driving. I'll need to take the same route a dozen of times before I can stop relying on my GPS.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#83

I'm the author of this post, happy to answer any questions. About me: I was formerly a director of product at FB and a founder of Firefox. My YC startup became FB's first acquisition. I'm focusing more on creative writing these days (wrote the Silicon Valley spec script and the Theranos parody that have come up on HN a few times.) Aphantasia was a pretty weird discovery for me given this new focus.

The question that kept coming to mind as I read this was how you compare different things? For example, something as simple as: What is more blue? The sky or a lake? Or, on a practical note, if you are designing software, do you have a good sense of color theory, to be able to select colors that will look good together, or do you have to put it on screen and do some trial and error? Also, your concept of the "milk vo…

> For example, something as simple as: What is more blue? The sky or a lake?

I'm not Blake but I actually can't answer that question. I'd have to ask you what lake and what sky. I've stored some notion of color values for ex. a "stormy" sky and could probably compare that to the color value I have stored for the lake near my childhood home.

The abstract concepts of "sky" and "lake" don't have any color to me though. If you asked me to imagine a plane flying through the sky, the sky wouldn't have a color.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#84
post #79

There are a lot of basic assumptions about thought that don't apply to everybody. My wife, for example, can't process "left" and "right" without great effort. She's intelligent and is a gifted artist in a variety of mediums, and is not dyslexic in the least. But if you tell her to "turn right" in a car it's very confusing for her to translate that into which direction she should take. Even more confusingly, she's a v…

I don't think it's uncommon. It gets even harder when trying to figure out relative left-right to other people. Here's a tip I learned once: hold your hands out, palms facing away from you and fingers up. Point your thumbs at each other and index fingers straight up. The left hand will form an "L" (for left) and the right hand will form a backwards "L".

I found this impossible throughout my childhood. One day it was suddenly easy.

I think, between the two moments, I had started playing a lot of top-down 3/4-view RPG video games. There's something about having an avatar that has a directional "facing" on a fixed-orientation orthogonal grid (picture a chessboard, where the piece has a face)—and where commanding the avatar with a direction button both moves it and turns it to face the same direction—which seems like it acted to train my brain to reflexively use this "model" whenever trying to figure out a directional visualization. I'd picture myself in the third person, give myself an "origin point", and then visualize where I'd be (in both movement and facing) before and after, relative to the origin.

(All this was without actually 'picturing' anything, in the traditional sense. Imagine having the sensation of manipulating a ferromagnetic cube floating inside a strong electromagnetic flux. The cube interacts differently with the surrounding magnetic field depending on its 3D orientation—it'll feel different when you're trying to add yaw if the "south" side of the cube is the one facing you, vs. the "east" side or the "bottom" side. Now imagine that the cube is a feeling in your proprioceptive system, rather than in your hands. Now imagine that there is no cube, only the feeling.)

One interesting effect of this is that I've found that I now get "acclimated" to cities I live in, and begin to have a very strong sense of where north is in those cities—because, at first, I look at Google Maps on my phone a lot while navigating, and so my "origin point" becomes fixed to North, such that I begin to see the same sort of fixed-orientation RPG grid overlaid on the city, with streets running "up-down" instead of north-south and "left-right" instead of east-west. I will actually have an intuition of "I'm facing up" when I'm facing north.

On the other hand, when I'm in a city I haven't acclimated to, man do I miss that sensation; I get completely lost.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#86

I'm the author of this post, happy to answer any questions. About me: I was formerly a director of product at FB and a founder of Firefox. My YC startup became FB's first acquisition. I'm focusing more on creative writing these days (wrote the Silicon Valley spec script and the Theranos parody that have come up on HN a few times.) Aphantasia was a pretty weird discovery for me given this new focus.

I don't think i visualize things ( if i understood correctly). Although it seems just partially. I do have dreams, but don't remember them ( after 10 minutes, i forgot them for sure). I never understood how people could draw robot faces to describe a person at a police officer... It seems weird... I have memories, but trying to describe something i will say "general things" like colors, objects, ... I can't describe…

If it's helpful I think I have aphantasia and am also an INTJ engineer.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#87
Not only can I imagine the beach, but sometimes I don't snap out of it until an hour (or more) later. At this point I have imagined an entire plot with myself as the main character and multiple other characters. The "movie" starts off at the imagined beach, including the bright sun making me squint, the feel of the sand under my feet, the smell of the salt water, etc. Next thing I know an hour (or more) has passed by. In this time I have befriended my fellow imaginary beach goers and joined them in defending the beach from a zombie invasion.

I had a similar experience to the author. Except that it was when I learned that not everyone experiences these intense fantasies. I experience a psychological concept known as Maladaptive Daydreaming. I find it difficult, and at times impossible, to stop visualizing through my minds eye.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#88

I would be curious to see how the HN community scores on this aphantasia survey embedded in the BBC article: http://www.bbc.com/news/health-34039054 . Perhaps there's a connection between programmers and this condition. Will you take it and report your score? The survey is oversimplified, obviously, but it was devised by the Exeter neurologists who are studying this. I got the lowest score (8/40) since none of the qu…

14/40

I said vague and dim for most of them, but it feels like fleeting glimpses of bits more than anything else. I can't really imagine coloured objects, though I sort of label an object as coloured. Geometric arrangements are easy to imagine but I don't have a real picture. I have no problems imagining sound, music or voices. I'm not sure if I dream in pictures and rarely remember dreams. (I work in science)

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#89

I'm the author of this post, happy to answer any questions. About me: I was formerly a director of product at FB and a founder of Firefox. My YC startup became FB's first acquisition. I'm focusing more on creative writing these days (wrote the Silicon Valley spec script and the Theranos parody that have come up on HN a few times.) Aphantasia was a pretty weird discovery for me given this new focus.

I don't understand how you can be unable to visualize scenes in your head but also write a script for _Silicon Valley_ that contains descriptions of visual humor.

Re: Aphantasia: How It Feels to Be Blind in Your Mind

#90

I'm the author of this post, happy to answer any questions. About me: I was formerly a director of product at FB and a founder of Firefox. My YC startup became FB's first acquisition. I'm focusing more on creative writing these days (wrote the Silicon Valley spec script and the Theranos parody that have come up on HN a few times.) Aphantasia was a pretty weird discovery for me given this new focus.

This is really fascinating. I'd say that I really only have a "milk voice" when reading things. Most of the rest of my private thoughts are images and particularly sounds.

In fact, I often know I'm about to drift off to sleep when the music in my head starts getting interesting. My dreams are often very intense, visual/audio experiences with plots and special effects, like AAA Hollywood movies.

I'll often wake up when the brass section of my mental orchestra gets too loud and I'll hear the last few beats repeating over and over as I gain consciousness.

I've actually found the multi-media/search aspects of modern chat systems very helpful since I can often reply what I'm thinking by just searching for a picture that represents my thoughts instead of writing out words.

I'm also absolutely terrible with directions on roads, but quite good inside of large complex buildings (my wife is the opposite).

One thought, instead of "giving in" to this fact, I wonder if exercising it might do something. Perhaps take some community sketching classes and work on drawing to see if exercising the unused visualization areas of your mind might activate them?

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