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Three teen sisters who win medals in coding competitions

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Re: Three teen sisters who win medals in coding competitions

#131

Post by nostrebored »

belorn wrote: post #125
nostrebored wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is coming from a generational gap, but your experience does not mirror mine at all. I went to an engineering school where women in CS were either assumed to be a management major or people assumed that they were taking the easiest courses available. I've had my wife answer questions for people thoroughly and correctly, and had them come to ask me the same question 20 minutes later and trust that my answer…

It seems fairly established that profession with highly unequal ratio of men and women tend to have a minority gender with a much higher exit rate than the majority, caused by the majority harassing the minority until they assimilate, quit or switch profession. The next step should be to ask why women working in a female dominated profession are harassing the men in the same profession, or why men working in male dom…

I do not think this seems fairly established at all. I have friends who are male nurses, friends who are male teachers, and the type of behavior they dealt with on a day to day basis was not harassment, they did not deal with coworkers who were constantly checking them out, they did not have people doubt their competence. Were people less quick to invite them into their groups? Sometimes. But they were still able to cultivate friend circles without an actively hostile percentage of the population.

The one place that I agree with you on this however, is childcare. I've dealt with a large amount of bullshit while staying at home with my newborn, and male caregivers are typically assumed to be incompetent.

Re: Three teen sisters who win medals in coding competitions

#132

Post by belorn »

nostrebored wrote: post #131
belorn wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems fairly established that profession with highly unequal ratio of men and women tend to have a minority gender with a much higher exit rate than the majority, caused by the majority harassing the minority until they assimilate, quit or switch profession. The next step should be to ask why women working in a female dominated profession are harassing the men in the same profession, or why men working in male dom…

I do not think this seems fairly established at all. I have friends who are male nurses, friends who are male teachers, and the type of behavior they dealt with on a day to day basis was not harassment, they did not deal with coworkers who were constantly checking them out, they did not have people doubt their competence. Were people less quick to invite them into their groups? Sometimes. But they were still able to…

What kind of study are you referencing there? I quoted a study commissioned by the Swedish government, which in turn referenced a study that looked at work culture in professions with unequal gender ratios.

Did you friends mention how children to men who take up female professions get teased in school because the job choice that their dad took? How their spouses don't want to tell friends what their partners job title is. How male nurses get question like "are you not a man, why are you a nurse?". People who walk up to a male midwife and accuse him of being a pedophile, ready to punch him? Read any of the multiple news article on how male preschool teachers do not feel safe at the job, feeling like they are under constant accusation by parents and co-workers? Same articles that talk how they dislike being the "representative" male, always chosen to do "male" stereotypical job activities?

But more importantly, the data don't lie. Male teachers and male students that are studying to become a teacher exit the job profession in rate about 450% higher than a female counterparts. Are we going to use the same old arguments that its something genetic that a male teachers starts working and after a year or so decide leave the profession?

Re: Three teen sisters who win medals in coding competitions

#133

Post by eru »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #114
eru wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, there were almost no nice cars to be had.

Social signalling is relative to the things available for that society. Even if there were no "nice cars" available by your standards, there still were "impressive" cars, relative to the society in question.

I used to live there. East Germans got West German TV. They knew about West German cars.

(And in any case, the range of cars available was much more compressed. Thus there was less differentiation at the high range.)

Re: Three teen sisters who win medals in coding competitions

#134

Post by ae_keji »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #87
ae_keji wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that makeup exists speaks a lot about our culture and how it views women.

Since it exists in every culture that has ever been known to man, it's not actually possible to draw conclusions in the normal way, by comparing a culture with makeup to one without. You can make claims about what it would mean for a culture not to use makeup, but if you do you should realize that those claims are, in their entirety, just some random junk you made up.

I was inferring global human culture, we didn't really develop in vacuums. And pardon my wording, I meant species, but I felt that'd imply that women were biologically disposed to wear makeup, which obviously I don't believe is true(maybe social factors caused by biology, but none still relevant in the 21st century).

More importantly, you're right though, I have zero evidence backing this up, or going against it. I just don't feel like it's very right.

Re: Three teen sisters who win medals in coding competitions

#135

Post by ae_keji »

meowface wrote: post #64
ae_keji wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that makeup exists speaks a lot about our culture and how it views women.

Are you saying makeup doesn't exist in Eastern Europe?

Well, it exists everywhere, but so does sexism.

Re: Three teen sisters who win medals in coding competitions

#137

Post by meowface »

ae_keji wrote: post #135
meowface wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying makeup doesn't exist in Eastern Europe?

Well, it exists everywhere, but so does sexism.

What evidence do you have that makeup is actually linked to sexism at all?

Re: Three teen sisters who win medals in coding competitions

#138

Post by qb45 »

S4M wrote: post #90

Basically they are the Polgár's of programming competition (for those who don't know, Susan, Sofia and Judit Polgár are chess players who were during their teens chess prodigy and some of the strongest women in the world. Judit Polgár retired last year, but she is still the only woman chess player who made it to the top 10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judit_Polg%C3%A1r ). In both cases they were exposed very young t…

> I wish there was during my teens (in the nineties) an option at school to learn programming. That was in France and I don't think it has changed since then.

That's funny, because I learned programming basics (and was self-taught from there) at school at a time when there was no formal curriculum and our teacher was a CS student who just figured he'd do a few lessons on that because what the heck.

I'm pretty sure that nowadays IT classes in my country are standardized enough that this wouldn't fly. Also, today nobody would dare hiring a CS student with no formal teaching qualifications instead of a professional teacher whose IT competence doesn't extend beyond MS Office. Meh.

Re: Three teen sisters who win medals in coding competitions

#139

Post by StudyAnimal »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #114
eru wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, there were almost no nice cars to be had.

Social signalling is relative to the things available for that society. Even if there were no "nice cars" available by your standards, there still were "impressive" cars, relative to the society in question.

No I think except for the politicians and military most people just got the standard model of Trabant or nothing.

Re: Three teen sisters who win medals in coding competitions

#140

Post by dang »

hermanbystand wrote: post #97

> Remember asking a girl for help to understand integrals. Why does this surprise you? Why do you think a girl couldn't teach you anything about integrals? So. Fucking. Sexist.

We've asked you before to stop creating HN accounts to break the HN guidelines with.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11538946 and marked it off-topic.

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