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Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

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Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#181

Post by jarman »

throwanem wrote: post #177
jarman wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government will identify citizens anyway. It's not choice between ID and no ID, but between simple ID and ad-hoc scheme (Name/Surname/Birthdate/Residence composite, or issuing separate id for each institution). While IDs do have negative consequences, I see zero downside in replacing VATIN, passport number (linked list of "previous document" in worst case, down to birth certificate), army id number, employment record…

Centralization and slack are inversely proportional. If everybody is reliably and unambiguously identified from birth by a single government-issued and -maintained key, and that government turns against its citizens (or is overthrown, compromised, et cetera), you're basically hosed.

That data is already centralized and interlinked. There is no 'slack' (ambiguity and leeway) as far as government is concerned.

I am not arguing for using government-issued IDs for non-government services (as in original post), and consider enforcement of such use a direct attack on citizen freedom, but only for having single ID for use in state-person relations.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#182

Post by pmarreck »

fab13n wrote: post #164
pmarreck wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But then, the simple fact that you're using a SIM card bought from a known SIM-trafficking criminal makes you worthy of interest. This is the same circular non-logic that permits officers to arrest you merely for resisting arrest. The state decides to make wearing blue illegal; I continue to because I am a strong "blue believer"; thus, merely by insisting on wearing blue, I MUST hang with other law-non-abiders (aka…

I'm not arguing that it's a very dangerous slope for public liberties. I believe the checks and balances against executive branches are increasingly broken in most western democracies, and that robust online privacy pushes in the very desirable direction of re-establishing a bit of that balance. I'm really concerned that most citizens don't see this as a major voting issue. However, this was neither the OP's point, n…

Ah, thank you for the clarification

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#183

Post by hartpuff »

creshal wrote: post #158
hartpuff wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps they hope the people doing it will gather some other point of reference about the country.

Please do tell me what points of reference I need to gather about my own home country.

Ones that are actually appropriate to the discussion.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#184

Post by TACIXAT »

wolfgke wrote: post #146
TACIXAT wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I dislike about it is as more sites require sms verification, your sms number becomes a 'real id'. Given that your mobile subscriber likely sells your demographic information, it's pretty shit for privacy. A lot of services reject voip numbers for verification.

Are these services really that important for you that you are willing give them your phone number for verification. I personally don't even own a cell phone and up to now I never felt the need of a service that requires SMS verification.

On my personal accounts, when it was pitched as a security measure, it made a lot of sense. I have been thinking more about privacy and tracking recently, and now it is not nearly as appealing.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#185

Post by icebraining »

ghshephard wrote: post #139
icebraining wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that presumable?

In general, Europe tries to have consistent policies regarding commercial activity, such as mobile data communications. Otherwise you run into odd arbitrage situations, or scenarios where people dodge legislation/laws in one country simply by hopping across the border, potentially putting businesses at a commercial (dis)advantage based on the country they are in, which is counter to some of the EU objectives. If Germ…

Sure, yet thousands of my compatriots have and continue to travel every month to the neighboring country to fill up their gas tanks, due to much lower fuel taxes. Just because Germany decide to cripple their providers does not necessarily mean the EU will impose the same on every other member state.

Besides, what further tightening of laws regarding data communications do you see Germany implementing? I hardly think requiring ID for SIM purchase will be a sufficient incentive to make users lose the advantages of a local phone number, having to figure out a way to credit a foreign pre-paid SIM, etc.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#186

Post by creshal »

jarman wrote: post #181
throwanem wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Centralization and slack are inversely proportional. If everybody is reliably and unambiguously identified from birth by a single government-issued and -maintained key, and that government turns against its citizens (or is overthrown, compromised, et cetera), you're basically hosed.

That data is already centralized and interlinked. There is no 'slack' (ambiguity and leeway) as far as government is concerned. I am not arguing for using government-issued IDs for non-government services (as in original post), and consider enforcement of such use a direct attack on citizen freedom, but only for having single ID for use in state-person relations.

> That data is already centralized and interlinked.

Not in all countries. Germany used to have explicit laws against combining state and federal record bases, they were only recently eroded to "fight terrorism".

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#187

Post by creshal »

hartpuff wrote: post #161
creshal wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because first they'll come for the contractless? No, but census data were extremely useful in organizing the holocaust. > Why is it some people are incapable of discussing Germany without tiresomely invoking the Nazis? Because in these cases that's how the political discussion in Germany in the 1980s/2000s went when the above-mentioned measures were discussed. It's simply the benchmark our governments are judged by…

This is not about collecting census data, is it? So, sticking to what it is about, if you think your invoking of the Nazis and the Holocaust was even remotely appropriate in this thread, explain how banning anonymous SIM cards aids a future genocide.

Banning anonymity in any form infringes on your right of expression, as it results in the panopticon effect. The BVerfG put it far more eloquently than I could: https://web.archive.org/web/20101116085553/http://zensus2011...

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#188

Post by creshal »

hartpuff wrote: post #165
creshal wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a "completely unrelated" discussion? No. But bringing up past German government failures in a discussion about a German government tightening up blanket surveillance of all their citizens is not "completely unrelated".

Let's hear it, then, what's the relationship between banning anonymous SIM cards and genocide.

Being able to map SIM cards to persons + phone location tracking = ?

I'll let you work out the rest yourself.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#190

Post by hartpuff »

creshal wrote: post #187
hartpuff wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not about collecting census data, is it? So, sticking to what it is about, if you think your invoking of the Nazis and the Holocaust was even remotely appropriate in this thread, explain how banning anonymous SIM cards aids a future genocide.

Banning anonymity in any form infringes on your right of expression, as it results in the panopticon effect. The BVerfG put it far more eloquently than I could: https://web.archive.org/web/20101116085553/http://zensus2011...

Great. Now explain how banning anonymous SIM cards causes genocide.
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