Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German] • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#141

Post by tunap » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:45 PM UTC

TACIXAT wrote: post #58

donohoe wrote: post #35

If I want to text or talk to you over a cell network I need to show ID. If I want to text, call (VOIP), email, chat, message you over wifi I don't. Sounds very secure.

What I dislike about it is as more sites require sms verification, your sms number becomes a 'real id'. Given that your mobile subscriber likely sells your demographic information, it's pretty shit for privacy. A lot of services reject voip numbers for verification.

This is why 'free' online services require your mobile number to activate & "protect access" to your account. Sure it works for that purpose, but more importantly, for data/digital tracking, the modern mobile has become the new tracking super-cookie to your digital ID.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#142

Post by fauigerzigerk » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:46 PM UTC

wolfgke wrote: post #129

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So someone was wrongly accused of a crime because the methods of catching criminals (that is the surveillance state) turned out to be flawed. I still don't see how that changes the definition of what "criminals" are.

If there weren't the surveillance state, he'd never be put into pretrial imprisonment (for which strong prior evidence that he is indeed a criminal is necessary). So thanks to the surveillance state he was handled as a criminal.

Yes he was accused and then acquitted. That doesn't change the definition of "criminals". The surveillance state may change the likelihood of a miscarriage of justice.

But in my view, the much more important problem is that the surveillance state makes people afraid of getting wrongly accused of a crime. They stop doing perfectly legal things because they might be difficult to explain. I have observed that in my own behavior and I know others who have become very defensive in their use of the internet.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#143

Post by reitoei » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:47 PM UTC

CrystalGamma wrote: post #48

cm2187 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about Germany, but a friend of mine visited London without roaming, and I was surprised that he achieved pretty much constant connectivity. There is almost not a single restaurant, coffee shop, airport or train without free wifi.

That's completely different in Germany, because here everyone with an internet access is legally liable for any misconduct done using their connection. There are movements to change this, but Germany still is the country with the lowest free-wifi coverage worldwide (I assume).

I think it's safe to say you have probably better free wifi coverage than somewhere like Somalia or Liberia.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#144

Post by reitoei » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:48 PM UTC

tunap wrote: post #141

TACIXAT wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I dislike about it is as more sites require sms verification, your sms number becomes a 'real id'. Given that your mobile subscriber likely sells your demographic information, it's pretty shit for privacy. A lot of services reject voip numbers for verification.

This is why 'free' online services require your mobile number to activate & "protect access" to your account. Sure it works for that purpose, but more importantly, for data/digital tracking, the modern mobile has become the new tracking super-cookie to your digital ID.

> the modern mobile has become the new tracking super-cookie to your digital ID

Never a truer word spoken.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#145

Post by JoeAltmaier » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:49 PM UTC

throwanem wrote: post #140

hartpuff wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One election gone wrong is all it takes and all those data will be used for genocide. Again. Because first they'll come for the contractless? Why is it some people are incapable of discussing Germany without tiresomely invoking the Nazis?

> Why is it some people are incapable of discussing Germany without tiresomely invoking the Nazis? I know, right? You'd think slaughtering a few million people in half a decade or so was some kind of big deal, or something.

To be honest, studies have shown that we're all capable of that. But, no harm no foul, so its all on the Germans at present.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#146

Post by wolfgke » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:52 PM UTC

TACIXAT wrote: post #58

donohoe wrote: post #35

If I want to text or talk to you over a cell network I need to show ID. If I want to text, call (VOIP), email, chat, message you over wifi I don't. Sounds very secure.

What I dislike about it is as more sites require sms verification, your sms number becomes a 'real id'. Given that your mobile subscriber likely sells your demographic information, it's pretty shit for privacy. A lot of services reject voip numbers for verification.

Are these services really that important for you that you are willing give them your phone number for verification. I personally don't even own a cell phone and up to now I never felt the need of a service that requires SMS verification.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#147

Post by wolfgke » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:57 PM UTC

Kristine1975 wrote: post #137

wolfgke wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the census (in the 80th) you are right, but today the political activists rather use comparisons with the Stasi. For example when Wolfgang Schäuble was Interior Minister activists against the Zugangserschwerungsgesetz (Access Impediment Act) often used the slogan "Stasi 2.0" ( https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi_2.0 ). The same slogan is used by activists against Vorratsdatenspeicherung (data retention).

"SSchäuble" was also used when referring to him in general.

Correct, but SSchäuble was a slogan of rather low level (in my opinion), just as "Rollstuhl-Nazi" (wheelchair nazi).

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#148

Post by fauigerzigerk » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:58 PM UTC

wolfgke wrote: post #134

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly, but that doesn't change the definition of "criminals".

It does: One is a criminal if the prosecution in a lawsuit can convince the judge that the accused is a criminal. Some evidence can only be collected in a panopticon which can make a difference in the trial. It would only make no difference if the result of the trial would be independent of the additional evidence that a surveillance state could in principle collect. But this would mean that the surveillance state is…

Then the source of our disagreement is simply this: Is the definition of "criminal"

(a) Someone who has committed a crime

(b) Someone who was convicted of a crime he may or may not have committed

I was using (a). If you are using (b) then I understand where you're coming from. But I think it's not a good idea to use (b) because that would make everyone who is the victim of a miscarriage of justice a criminal when in fact they are not.

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#149

Post by jjgreen » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 2:59 PM UTC

blah5432 wrote: post #95

Loic wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI: the TIN is a unique number associated to each person living in Germany. New born babies are getting a TIN faster than most of the congratulation cards... It is issued by the tax authorities and as a foreigner living in Germany you also get one.

Resistance to ID is just an americanism. There are no practical negative consecuences and a lot of good ones. Identity is a right that government must warrant, not something dirty that should be buried.

So why you create temporary accounts to comment?

Re: Germany to ban anonymous SIM cards[German]

#150

Post by wolfgke » Thu, Apr 21, 2016, 3:01 PM UTC

05 wrote: post #131

programLyrique wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An ID is required in France (and presumably in other EU countries) to buy a SIM card and has been for some years... and yet no harmonization has taken place.

Might be technically required, but.. http://techcrunch.com/2014/04/10/free-will-sell-sim-cards-us... Where do I put my passport in this SIM vending machine? :-)

At least in the picture of the vending machine I see no possibility of using cash. Instead you probably have to use your ATM card or credit card, which leaves a strong data trace.