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Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

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Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#221
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will probably be less worrysome than what we do today, covering a lot of the earth with animals that is horrible for the environment.

Humans are the only animals that seem to have a significant environmental impact.

Parent probably meant humans, or perhaps cattle as well...

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#222
post #145

India has made huge investments in Solar and is gradually paying off. 1.World's first solar power airport is in India http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/14/technology/india-cochin-sola... 2.Solar power from dams http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2014-11-10/news...

Wasn't there some WTO ruling against India just recently that will make solar more expensive there?

The ruling was that Indian government subsidies must be paid to foreign firms as well as Indian firms.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparison is between the cost of new installations - coal power is very cheap because the facilities are old and the capital expenses were sunk a long time ago. New solar power is now cheaper to build out than new coal plants, which is reasonable enough given the cost of both raw materials and production processes for solar had plummeted over the last decade whereas coal is a very mature technology that is effec…

>The comparison is between the cost of new installations That may be, but that isn't what the headline says. It simply says that solar is cheaper than coal, which of course is not the case right now.

Short Headlines Omit Details, Experts Say

Seven Words Found Insufficient for Expressing Nuance

Headlines "Easy Targets" for Quibbling

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11524691 Why does solar always need batteries? These are not "advances". India is adding 20k MW of solar and 10k MW of wind p.a. China is at 20+20. US at 20+20. Europe at 20+20. 30% of all new power capacity additions globally will be from renewables for the foreseeable future. Probably more. This is without "batteries". Without subsidies. The need for "baseload", "storage…

>The need for "baseload", "storage", or "the sun doesn't always shine and the wind doesn't always blow" are red herrings. They are not relevant. They aren't red herrings they are poor excuses when used as a reason to not to expand renewable but they aren't without their merit. We need to improve energy storage considerably to be able to push renewables to be actually a major part of the electric grid. A a major part…

Where do we go after lithium iron phophate batteries as far as a galvanic chemical source for batteries?

Please help me the understand evidence that suggests we have somewhere on the periodic table to move to after Lithium batteries? (Lead Acid ----> NiCd ----> Lithium....now where do we go?)

How do we improve energy storage? Be very explicit about what data/evidence are driving your statements. Bold claims about energy storage increases are unusual given the energy realities of today.

How much natural gas peaking can solar/wind displace?

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#225
These are all red herrings from the most immensely important technology we must regulate....

We must put carbon capture technology on all coal plants as the immediate high impact stop-gap solution to CO2 emissions. I think the only way this happens is regulatory.

The general utility verdict on solar/wind is that it's good for displacing natural gas peaking in a small way.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#226
post #61

Aren't warm countries incredibly suitable for solar power? I assume most of the electricity is used during the day for things like electric motors during the work hours and air-conditioning. So they don't need to store that energy to keep homes warm during the colder night (even if residential AC is kept running during the night it will consume less energy since the temperatures will fall)

Absolutely- factoring in refrigeration as well, it seems like an ideal location for widespread solar. On top of that, power transmission in a developing country would benefit a ton from decentralization. The tough aspects of managing a decentralized grid (sensing and load shedding) are much easier today than when the North American / European power grids were developed. I'd even wager to say that some non-industrial areas should push for HVDC transmission and start to move away from AC altogether. With most of our household amenities trending towards relatively low DC voltages, the AC losses don't seem as worthwhile if we can avoid it.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#227

"Solar energy prices hit a new record low in January with the auction of 420 megawatts in Rajasthan at 4.34 rupees a kilowatt-hour. In comparison coal tariffs range between 3-5 rupees/kWh." So the headline here is, as is usually the case with articles in this space, misleading at best. It's slightly cheaper than the highest-end coal, but dramatically more expensive - nearly 1.5X more - than the lower end. Overall, it…

India has National Solar Mission. It has differential pricing for solar vs other means govt subsidizes solar power for it to compete with coal. When the govt started this programme about 8 years back, cost was around INR17 per kwh. It has come down to a level where it can actually compete with coal during day times of high load. That is pretty significant.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#228

"Solar energy prices hit a new record low in January with the auction of 420 megawatts in Rajasthan at 4.34 rupees a kilowatt-hour. In comparison coal tariffs range between 3-5 rupees/kWh." So the headline here is, as is usually the case with articles in this space, misleading at best. It's slightly cheaper than the highest-end coal, but dramatically more expensive - nearly 1.5X more - than the lower end. Overall, it…

I think that you have to assume that they don't need batteries (it turns out that there are other sources of power), that the cost is actually included in the auctioned price or that they are making a safe bet that they can sell it at a loss based on predictions of future costs.

Re: Solar is now cheaper than some coal, says India energy minister

#229

Shameless plug: If you want to participate in India's progress towards bigger rooftop-solar, please consider joining http://www.oorjan.com . We believe we are doing something unique in leveraging banking and financial relationships to productize solar deployments. And looking for great devs right now - esp frontend :-)

Is solar viable for small installations without any subsidies ? I was recently looking at a 30KW proposal for a small enterprise in Tamil Nadu. The quoted price is Rs. 36 lakhs. At the rate of Rs 6.75 per unit, it doesn't even cover the interest costs. Does this match with your capex costs or is this way off ?

What we've found is it's immediately viable for commercial properties that make profits e.g. malls, workshops, small factories, petrol pumps, etc. The accelerated depreciation benefits mean you'll make your money back in little more than a year. If you own any such rooftop, this ought to be a no-brainer for you.

Even if you're not making profits (and so have no tax, and accelerated depreciation doesn't help you), commercial electricity rates in India are high, and you can expect break-even in about 3 years.

For residential consumers, break-even is 5-7 years, depending on which state you're in.

For your specific example, would need to know details to offer comments. At first glance, the quoted price seems way too high. Consider not installing batteries unless you absolutely must for your use-case.

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