Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's art. The shirt was also made by a woman, for what it's worth.
Nabokov's Lolita is also art. Lester the molester is also art. Invalid argument.
Have you actually read Lolita.
For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare
231–240 of 402 posts
Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare
#232Maybe in America... where people (which includes scientists) don't really have a social life. Anyway, if America becomes too hostile for scientists, I'll be happy if Europe and Russia become more attractive to people who don't want deal with bullshit and lawyers.
Most Americans don't really have a social life? News to me...
It's news to people who don't know better...
Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare
#233I've been a prof: Academics is awash in non-objective pushing and shoving that, yes, affects careers. In academics, even high end universities, a lot of the nasty behavior of middle school is still alive and well. Added to that is grown up politics, professional jealousy, professional competition with sabotage, and, also, no doubt, sexual harassment as in the OP. I can't speak first hand about sexual harassment becau…
"Honey"? Who on earth do you think you're talking to? Please tell me this post is performance art and not the way you actually talk to women in your real life.
Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare
#234I must admit that I was genuinely surprised by this. I have worked in Astronomy (as a technologist) for over a decade, and I have never witnessed this sort of behaviour. Of course, I am male. There are, however, plenty of assholes in the world including in academia, and I have noticed that universities tend not to want to rock the boat, so I suppose that it is not entirely surprising that these things are occurring.…
Frankly, I'd find it more surprising if you had witnessed this sort of behavior. Put yourself in the place of a harasser. Are you going to say or do something creepy in front of the decent guys you work with? Or are you going to pick a time when you and your victim are alone?
Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare
#235I never knew BuzzFeed wrote exclusive longform (and interesting) content. Thanks for mentioning it.
BuzzFeed has a crazy amount of real, good journalistic content. I wish they used a separate domain name for their real journalism so I wouldn't have to take the "real article or clickbait" gamble every time I click a buzzfeed.com link.
It would probably be counter to their revenue model if they had a separate domain for serious journalism.
Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare
#236Earlier quoted context omitted.
The very next paragraph: "Harassment does not have to be of a sexual nature, however, and can include offensive remarks about a person’s sex. For example, it is illegal to harass a woman by making offensive comments about women in general." This is what the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission considers "sexual harassment". You may not like these definitions, but this is the government's definition of "sexual…
You can define anything to be anything when you're in the outrage porn business, but unrealistic descriptions meant to stoke emotion don't help to solve actual problems, they just make for more outrage porn.
You're implying that the US government is in the "outrage porn business".
Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare
#237Earlier quoted context omitted.
Based on your description, it sounds like your wife has experienced a decent amount of harassment. (I include that extreme bullying in it.) When a number of individual assholes are allowed to continue being assholes, and you need to have a "look out for yourself attitude", that is a systemic problem. I'm genuinely curious what your wife's take is - she may see it a little differently from you.
> Based on your description, it sounds like your wife has experienced a decent amount of harassment. It seems to matter quite a lot to people whether harassment is characterized as gender-based or not, and we don't have any apparent evidence that it is. Though I've never really been sure why being a jerk to someone because they're a woman should be any different than being a jerk in exactly the same way for some enti…
Your last question is a good one, and the pithy answer is, because it's against the law. But the real answer is that it's against the law because gender discrimination and sexual harassment (and a single act can be both) are such a systemic problem that we had to create laws to address it specifically.
Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare
#238Earlier quoted context omitted.
Biology is one of the most female-friendly STEM fields out there. I've met female biologists, plenty of them. The article describes astrophysics as 90%, 95% male at many of these universities. I think it's likely that the issues aren't quite as systemic in fields which are a little more diverse, but that doesn't mean the issue isn't a cultural, systemic one in astrophysics.
I get what you are saying; however, I have not witnessed this behaviour (perhaps, because I am male). If it was really a cultural, systemic problem in astrophysics, I feel like I would have noticed. [EDIT: I don't mean to imply that the problem is not real, only that I am surprised and disappointed] As for the diversity of the field, I believe it is getting more diverse. The gender ratio of graduate students in astro…
I realized I wrote a wall of text in response. I'm not picking on you, but I think you brought up a point that I think is really worth responding to in depth, because I felt that way in one point in time, and I've slowly realized how wrong I was.
I used to believe that I would surely notice if I was in an environment that fostered harassment. Over time, I've realized that harassment is a problem, but I was just looking for the wrong things. Harassment doesn't really manifest itself in a way that can be made clear from a single objective measurement.
There is a lot of research about sexism that really reveals what is not obvious to me, as a man, about how sexism affects women:
When talking on the phone in a customer support role, women are more likely to be yelled at.
Men tend to talk for a disproportionately large amount of a conversation.
Assertive women are viewed much more negatively than assertive men by both men and women.
Studies like these made me re-evaluate how harassment presents itself. I used to think that it was obvious, like wolf-whistles on the street. Harassment is more like living in a world where everyone is just a little (or a lot) bit shittier to you. It's a lot easier to ignore, because you've had the same experiences.
As an example, I currently am one of three guys out of 25 people at my current company. We are a non-profit, and we have about 800k constituents, 100k of whom give in any given year. We all field a lot of calls from constituents who aren't happy for whatever reason. In the two years I've worked here, I've been yelled at once. However, the women who work here get yelled at weekly, regardless of their position.
I majored in biology, and took a ton of CS in school. Bio was mostly women, and the CS program had barely a handful. As I look back, I've realized that the women in the programs really needed to present a lot more evidence for any other their proposals than men ever did.
In both cases, it's really easy to dismiss criticisms with the platitude "Those things happen to everyone." They do, but they happen more to women. These little things add up, and teach women that their point of view is easily discounted, even when the evidence is incontrovertible. Reporting sexual harassment, even to someone you trust, is a huge gamble. All of their life experience points to the fact that they won't be taken seriously, especially if the person they are reporting it to is a male. They are way more likely to be seen as not being a team-player for reporting it, even if they are 100% in the right.
Long story short: in order to see harassment, it's incredibly important to listen to what women are saying. It's also really important to listen to what you are saying in response, and whether you are actually listening.
Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare
#239Earlier quoted context omitted.
It was a friend, rather than a colleague, that made and gave him the shirt so they may well be unaware of how it would be percieved by his colleagues when worn in this context.
> so they may well be unaware of how it would be percieved by his colleagues when worn in this context. Wasn't the controversy more about how the shirt was perceived by randos on twitter, not by his colleagues?
Yes, rando astrophysicists on twitter:
Re: For Female Astronomers, Sexual Harassment Is a Constant Nightmare
#240Earlier quoted context omitted.
If she really wanted to see the movie with you, but she actually had to take her dog to the dentist, she would have counter-offered a time and date. She was trying to brush you off, hoping you'd take the hint, without appearing confrontational. It obviously didn't work. You continued with the unwanted advances, and it made her uncomfortable.
You are making it sound like it's actually his fault that he kept asking until she actually gave a definite answer. Worst than that, some people would call that harassment and chastise me and others for victim blaming, just stating a simple fact: She should have said no. I wonder how many of these cases get into the statistics about harassment when it should just be considered simple human interaction up to the point…
Using a straight-up "no" can turn it into an outright confrontation, which can be pretty dangerous if the guy isn't the type that will take "no" for an answer.
Once I gave a guy a simple-but-polite "no" in college, and he responded with harassing emails/repeated phone calls/stalking/etc for months.
Once during an internship, a superior cornered me in my office after-hours, blocking my exit and declaring his love for me. I could've said "no", but I was alone and cornered and in a very vulnerable situation, so I stammered over excuses about being really busy with work right then and thanked God that my internship was ending in a few days.
I wish I could just say "no", because most men would be civil and bow out and appreciate the straightforwardness. But I have no way to know in advance which kind of person any given guy is going to be.