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India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

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Re: India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

#31

Post by _jgdh »

catchmrbharath wrote: post #25
woodandsteel wrote: post #12

Seems like India is leap-frogging way past where the U.S. financial system is. On the other hand, I worry if all this personal ID data got hacked.

India is way ahead of the US financial system. I am a student here in US and I can't really fathom how bad the US financial system is. - Intra bank wires / transfers are free and happen within 10s - Cheques are free - You don't have a system where you can lose all your money if you give your handwritten cheques to somebody (who came up with echeques anyway?) - You don't get charged to have a checking account. They pa…

Inter bank transfers are also instantaneous and cost $0.08 per transaction

Re: India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

#32

Post by _jgdh »

j0e1 wrote: post #16
_blz2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know opinion articles from The Gaurdian count as facts. The other wiki pages about Christian Church burning has no link to the government in power. Not sure what the implication was there. The Sikh riots did not have a religious motivation, rather a fallout of operation Bluestar and the resulting assassination of Indiri Gandhi (A congress leader, the party which is supposedly far left on cultural issues. The…

>because Hindus are a dying majority in India. Curious what you meant by that. Care to explain?

Hindus have always been the majority on the Indian subcontinent (around 90%), similar to how the majority of Americans (after the 1700s) have been white. The prime worry of the Hindu population seems to be that gradually they would represent smaller proportions of the overall population. The reasoning behind this is that although you can convert to other religions, it isn't possible to convert to Hinduism. In 1951 Hindus were 84% of the population. In 2011, that had dropped to 79%. [1]

With the loss of majority status, it becomes difficult to dominate the political discourse like Hindus do today. Just like how it was impossible to think of a non-white person becoming President of the US, it is also impossible to think of a non-Hindu holding any serious power in India for the foreseeable future.

Note for those unfamiliar with India - the language Hindi is unrelated to the religion Hinduism. Its possible to be a Hindi speaker and not a Hindu and also possible to be a Hindu and not a Hindi speaker.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Census_of_India

Re: India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

#34

Post by aptwebapps »

catchmrbharath wrote: post #25
woodandsteel wrote: post #12

Seems like India is leap-frogging way past where the U.S. financial system is. On the other hand, I worry if all this personal ID data got hacked.

India is way ahead of the US financial system. I am a student here in US and I can't really fathom how bad the US financial system is. - Intra bank wires / transfers are free and happen within 10s - Cheques are free - You don't have a system where you can lose all your money if you give your handwritten cheques to somebody (who came up with echeques anyway?) - You don't get charged to have a checking account. They pa…

I'm not going to argue against the general thesis that the US banking system is antiquated, but I gotta pick these nits:

- Checks are usually free in the US.

- You don't usually get charged to have a checking account in the US.

- The lack of interest on most US checking accounts is due to the very low inflation rate and nearly zero federal rate. Adjusted for inflation, what is the interest rate of your Indian checking account? Back in the 70s when inflation was high in the US checking account that carried interest were not uncommon. I do seem to remember that they were called something else, but I can't remember right now.

Re: India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

#36

Post by akbar501 »

_blz2 wrote: post #8
manifestdissent wrote: post #7

In a country where genocide and sectarian violence are a regular occurrence†, I am sure that a detailed database of religious affiliation, biometrics, photographs, and addresses won't be misused. Much like the Dutch census, history will look back at this registry of citizens with horror. † http://time.com/3545867/india-1984-sikh-genocide-anniversary... http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/07/narendr... h…

Since you conveniently decided to not show violent acts against Indian Hindus, here are some links on Anti-Hindu violence for sake of completeness. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism#India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Islamic_terrorism_in_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_violence_in_India#Re... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing_of_Kashmiri_H... https://en.wikipedia.org…

If you remove the links from the parent's comment, the main point is valid: "In a country where genocide and sectarian violence are a regular occurrence, I am sure that a detailed database of religious affiliation, biometrics, photographs, and addresses won't be misused."

This point applies without regard as to who is responsible for the violent acts. There are large scale acts of violence (which is horrid) and a database such as this can/may be used to facilitate future acts of violence.

Re: India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

#37

Post by simula67 »

apo wrote: post #19

The plan is based on a national identity system with 80% penetration: > So far, India's attempt to assign every citizen a unique 12-digit number associated with a person's unique iris, fingerprint or facial features, is succeeding—just last week, Aadhaar reached its milestone of registering 1 billion people. With more than 80 percent of Indians enrolled, it gives the payments system a solid base to build on. This rem…

I held off for a very long time. I realized finally that if it is OK for me to give these details to foreign governments ( for visa ) atleast I should not be so uneasy about giving it to the Indian government which ( at least theoretically ) have the responsibility to defend my interests.

Re: India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

#38

Post by jeevand »

catchmrbharath wrote: post #25
woodandsteel wrote: post #12

Seems like India is leap-frogging way past where the U.S. financial system is. On the other hand, I worry if all this personal ID data got hacked.

India is way ahead of the US financial system. I am a student here in US and I can't really fathom how bad the US financial system is. - Intra bank wires / transfers are free and happen within 10s - Cheques are free - You don't have a system where you can lose all your money if you give your handwritten cheques to somebody (who came up with echeques anyway?) - You don't get charged to have a checking account. They pa…

Indian banks have their own problems. I have spent lots of time dealing with Indian banks which want me to show up in person to handle certain account issues while i was in US. Security works more by obscurity where you have to provide lots of details, which can be bad if you don't regularly use the accounts. Customer service depends on situation. When i deal with private banks, i will be treated really well (with offer for tea/cold drinks/snacks :) & personal attention from manager. My dad, who deals with public sector banks in rural area tells me that he dreads to go near banks. The managers apparently are super rude, with a condescending attitude towards rural people.

Re: India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

#39

Post by r0h1n »

simula67 wrote: post #37
apo wrote: post #19

The plan is based on a national identity system with 80% penetration: > So far, India's attempt to assign every citizen a unique 12-digit number associated with a person's unique iris, fingerprint or facial features, is succeeding—just last week, Aadhaar reached its milestone of registering 1 billion people. With more than 80 percent of Indians enrolled, it gives the payments system a solid base to build on. This rem…

I held off for a very long time. I realized finally that if it is OK for me to give these details to foreign governments ( for visa ) atleast I should not be so uneasy about giving it to the Indian government which ( at least theoretically ) have the responsibility to defend my interests.

>> ...giving it to the Indian government which ( at least theoretically ) have the responsibility to defend my interests.

That's an assumption not borne out by facts. The Indian govt. has denied that citizens even have a right to privacy [1]. And there is no recourse (or even disclosure requirements) if a citizen's data is lost, stolen or misused under the Aadhaar ID system [2].

This is not say Aadhaar or the Indian govt. are bad, but I'm just contesting your point Indians "should not be so uneasy" about giving up their biometrics and other data to the govt. There are massive, valid concerns.

[1] - http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/No-fundamental-righ...

[2] - http://indianexpress.com/article/opinion/columns/aadhaar-bil...

Re: India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

#40

Post by catchmrbharath »

aptwebapps wrote: post #34
catchmrbharath wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India is way ahead of the US financial system. I am a student here in US and I can't really fathom how bad the US financial system is. - Intra bank wires / transfers are free and happen within 10s - Cheques are free - You don't have a system where you can lose all your money if you give your handwritten cheques to somebody (who came up with echeques anyway?) - You don't get charged to have a checking account. They pa…

I'm not going to argue against the general thesis that the US banking system is antiquated, but I gotta pick these nits: - Checks are usually free in the US. - You don't usually get charged to have a checking account in the US. - The lack of interest on most US checking accounts is due to the very low inflation rate and nearly zero federal rate. Adjusted for inflation, what is the interest rate of your Indian checkin…

- You don't usually get charged to have a checking account in the US.

I have to maintain a minimum balance of 1500$ for the checking account to be free.

>> - The lack of interest on most US checking accounts is due to the very low inflation rate and nearly zero federal rate. Adjusted for inflation, what is the interest rate of your Indian checking account? Back in the 70s when inflation was high in the US checking account that carried interest were not uncommon. I do seem to remember that they were called something else, but I can't remember right now.

Agreed. I got carried away trying to make a point :).

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