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India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

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Re: India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

#21

Post by jeremyt »

jakub_h wrote: post #20
jeremyt wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't even begin to describe how condescending your comment comes across as.

Setting aside the fact that condescending comments aren't mutually exclusive with true ones, I wonder if those packagings weren't "relatively useless" simply for the fact that small packagings ususally tend to be more expensive in the long run. It's more or less the same problem as with poor people in developed countries not being able to save money on batch buys, especially in case of supermarket discounts.

That's not what he said. You're putting words in his mouth.

Re: India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

#22

Post by prebrov »

Here's an anecdote about India.

They started requiring customer authorisation on all card transaction recently (signature doesn't cut it and no Paywave for you). There were reports on how that that forced Uber to use local payment gateway.

Anyway, couple months ago I was in Chennai, went to a restaurant with a customer and when the bill came which customer didn't give me a chance to pick up, they handed over a card AND a PIN number for the card.

I was shocked, naturally. The customer explained to me this is standard practice and "a requirement" now for locally issues cards.

It isn't really, but since most terminals are wired and installed at the checkout counter, Customers aren't invited to enter the PIN over at the other end of the venue and aren't keen to, frankly. It is upper class who uses cards for payments and psychologically and culturally they're expecting a full service. Walking to the terminal to enter a PIN is a bit of a "walk of shame".

So, that's how best government intentions turn into known, en-masse and country-wide security hole and a direct breach of banking service contract, that requires customer to keep PIN private and waives any responsibility if PIN is shared.

I would not at all be surprised if this 12-digit personal API ID will be shared just as easily as a card PIN.

Re: India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

#23

Post by blackoil »

prebrov wrote: post #22

Here's an anecdote about India. They started requiring customer authorisation on all card transaction recently (signature doesn't cut it and no Paywave for you). There were reports on how that that forced Uber to use local payment gateway. Anyway, couple months ago I was in Chennai, went to a restaurant with a customer and when the bill came which customer didn't give me a chance to pick up, they handed over a card A…

Now a lot of establishments are getting wireless terminals, which they bring to your seat.

Re: India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

#24

Post by rahulr »

woodandsteel wrote: post #12

Seems like India is leap-frogging way past where the U.S. financial system is. On the other hand, I worry if all this personal ID data got hacked.

Hacking is definitely a worry. A bigger problem might be communicating and teaching people not to part with this information easily.

Re: India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

#25

Post by catchmrbharath »

woodandsteel wrote: post #12

Seems like India is leap-frogging way past where the U.S. financial system is. On the other hand, I worry if all this personal ID data got hacked.

India is way ahead of the US financial system. I am a student here in US and I can't really fathom how bad the US financial system is.

- Intra bank wires / transfers are free and happen within 10s

- Cheques are free

- You don't have a system where you can lose all your money if you give your handwritten cheques to somebody (who came up with echeques anyway?)

- You don't get charged to have a checking account. They pay you interest for your account.

- Get a message about every transaction, every withdrawal that you do immediately.

Re: India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

#26

Post by supergreg »

prebrov wrote: post #22

Here's an anecdote about India. They started requiring customer authorisation on all card transaction recently (signature doesn't cut it and no Paywave for you). There were reports on how that that forced Uber to use local payment gateway. Anyway, couple months ago I was in Chennai, went to a restaurant with a customer and when the bill came which customer didn't give me a chance to pick up, they handed over a card A…

I was under the assumption that the 12-digit ID is public data, the bank account number, not the password to access it. Unless they can scan your iris and derive the number themselves to identify you, which makes it similar to a bitcoin address, while the private key for that address is your biometric data.

Re: India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

#27

Post by tushar-r »

prebrov wrote: post #22

Here's an anecdote about India. They started requiring customer authorisation on all card transaction recently (signature doesn't cut it and no Paywave for you). There were reports on how that that forced Uber to use local payment gateway. Anyway, couple months ago I was in Chennai, went to a restaurant with a customer and when the bill came which customer didn't give me a chance to pick up, they handed over a card A…

>It isn't really, but since most terminals are wired and installed at the checkout counter, Customers aren't invited to enter the PIN over at the other end of the venue and aren't keen to, frankly. It is upper class who uses cards for payments and psychologically and culturally they're expecting a full service. Walking to the terminal to enter a PIN is a bit of a "walk of shame".

In the last 2 years or so, since PIN has become mandatory, I've come across one instance where the hotel asks for the PIN in this manner. Most of them have wireless terminals now and the others ask you to come over and type in the PIN. This experience is quite rare in Chennai or Bangalore.

Re: India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

#28

Post by siddharthdeswal »

prebrov wrote: post #22

Here's an anecdote about India. They started requiring customer authorisation on all card transaction recently (signature doesn't cut it and no Paywave for you). There were reports on how that that forced Uber to use local payment gateway. Anyway, couple months ago I was in Chennai, went to a restaurant with a customer and when the bill came which customer didn't give me a chance to pick up, they handed over a card A…

I'd like to clarify a couple points here. The terminals have been in use for years now across petrol pumps, restaurants, malls, pubs etc. And the majority are the wireless kinds now where they bring the machine to you to punch in the pin number.

And the cultural part about the upper class finding it a walk of shame is, quite frankly, ridiculous. Instead, we feel secure giving out the pin number because we know that the person needs the card and the pin to make a transaction and we'll get an SMS the moment a transaction goes through. And more often than not, we're too lazy to walk to the terminal so we just tell the waiter the pin number.

Re: India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

#29

Post by catchmrbharath »

prebrov wrote: post #22

Here's an anecdote about India. They started requiring customer authorisation on all card transaction recently (signature doesn't cut it and no Paywave for you). There were reports on how that that forced Uber to use local payment gateway. Anyway, couple months ago I was in Chennai, went to a restaurant with a customer and when the bill came which customer didn't give me a chance to pick up, they handed over a card A…

I have been guilty of sharing the PIN in restaurants, when they don't have wireless terminals (which happens very rarely). There are a couple of reasons why I didn't feel it was a security hole.

1. All Indian cards are chip cards, hence they cannot be replicated (or not replicated quickly)

2. I get a transaction message immediately. I know exactly how much money was charged into my account.

3. My credit card cannot be used anywhere to make a transaction > 20$ without a 2 factor message to my phone.

All these security ideas are built into the system and its not opt in.

Re: India's Plan to Bring Digital Banking to 1.2B People

#30

Post by loeg »

hackuser wrote: post #4
x5n1 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny reading that, multinationals introduced relatively useless products to the masses using small quantities they could afford. The first hit is free. This is more about control then actually improving anything. India still has problems with terror that could be better tracked if all finances could be scrutinized. Corruption too. If we can only get Pakistan to do the same.

Why are toothpaste and shampoo "relatively useless"? I believe there are many health benefits to using them. I don't know for sure, however, because I've never tried going without them for long ... let me know how that goes.

Shampoo is maybe useful. Some sort of soap + scalp action, occasionally, is beneficial. Plenty of people in the west don't use shampoo or use it rarely.

You don't really need toothpaste. It's the brushing part that's good for removing detritus from your teeth.

Edit: Downvote with no comment? How is this comment non-constructive, so I can avoid doing it in the future?

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