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The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

theguardian.com

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Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#61

Post by lmm »

Terr_ wrote: post #24
mc32 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they don't have it people want it, and when they get it, they don't want it. Run down cities, rust belt cities wish for gentrification, people who live in places going down hill wish for it too, it brings safer neighborhoods, better stores, more jobs, on the other hand people decry rising rents and "changing the character" of the neighborhood, as if unemployment and the transients didn't also"change the characte…

Or maybe people want a middle-ground (in outcome or in rate-of-change) which for whatever reason doesn't seem to be in the cards.

People want their neighbourhood to get nicer and their rent to stay the same. Which is an understandable thing to want, but not practical.

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#62

Post by coldtea »

Because they are not essential (like a bodega or gas station would be), and most are tied to a more laid-back, more bohemian lifestyle -- which means enough non-poor people are coming in the neighborhood to make them viable.

Of course talking about "coffee shops" proper -- the poor just make do with Dunkin Doughnuts and the like...

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#63

Post by coldtea »

mysterypie wrote: post #11
Xcelerate wrote: post #2

> I love looking in through the outside window and seeing everyone on MacBooks, it’s busy, it’s exciting and yet you’ll get someone walking passed saying ‘Oh my god, look in there, everyone is on a laptop! What’s wrong with them! Why don’t they talk to each other!?’ This is funny, because it perfectly describes the difference in attitude between me and my father. He gets annoyed when he walks into a coffee shop and s…

> I think the atmosphere is quite cozy, and love taking my own stuff to work on I can remember a time (1980's and earlier) when the modern version of the coffee shop didn't exist. The nearest equivalent was a bar: Dimly lit, filled with smoke, loud annoying music, aggressive people, and a waiter coming around every 10 minutes to ask/demand if you want another drink. If you dared bring in some papers or a book to read…

>I can remember a time (1980's and earlier) when the modern version of the coffee shop didn't exist. The nearest equivalent was a bar.

Nope, the nearest equivalent was a diner. Think "Happy Days" -- those things existed for a century.

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#65

Post by guard-of-terra »

nxzero wrote: post #13
golergka wrote: post #10

Why is the author so quick to assume that everyone sees gentrification as something bad? There's been vocal opposition to it, but it doesn't mean that everybody feels that way.

Why Is Gentrification Such a Bad Word? http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/06/gentrifi...

"seizing homes a family has owned for generations because of $150 owed in property taxes, even if that was just a clerical error; changing the locks while carrying out “repairs,” lying that the building is being condemned, or turning off utilities"

Wow. That's totally not cool. High-profile officials should be made resign over cases like those.

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#66

Post by TorKlingberg »

xzi wrote: post #36
mysterypie wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think the atmosphere is quite cozy, and love taking my own stuff to work on I can remember a time (1980's and earlier) when the modern version of the coffee shop didn't exist. The nearest equivalent was a bar: Dimly lit, filled with smoke, loud annoying music, aggressive people, and a waiter coming around every 10 minutes to ask/demand if you want another drink. If you dared bring in some papers or a book to read…

I remember those days. And I couldn't go into the bars, being in my teens in the mid-to-late 80s. The best option was the all night places like IHOP. As long as you tipped well and weren't loud, they'd let you hold down a booth with nothing but coffee for most of the night. And then moved to a college town which already had 3-4 competing coffee shops in 1989. Felt like heaven. Doing homework on my old Powerbook. Sitt…

The first Powerbook was released in 1991, and started at $4000 converted to current dollars.

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#67

Post by narag »

coldtea wrote: post #62

Because they are not essential (like a bodega or gas station would be), and most are tied to a more laid-back, more bohemian lifestyle -- which means enough non-poor people are coming in the neighborhood to make them viable. Of course talking about "coffee shops" proper -- the poor just make do with Dunkin Doughnuts and the like...

What's a "bodega"? I'm surprised to see this word in English, also considered as a basic service (not a wine cellar then?). In Spanish it's one of the two evolutions of Greek "apotheke", the other one being "botica" (farmacy).

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#68

Post by coldtea »

narag wrote: post #67
coldtea wrote: post #62

Because they are not essential (like a bodega or gas station would be), and most are tied to a more laid-back, more bohemian lifestyle -- which means enough non-poor people are coming in the neighborhood to make them viable. Of course talking about "coffee shops" proper -- the poor just make do with Dunkin Doughnuts and the like...

What's a "bodega"? I'm surprised to see this word in English, also considered as a basic service (not a wine cellar then?). In Spanish it's one of the two evolutions of Greek "apotheke", the other one being "botica" (farmacy).

I know it with these meanings, but used it in the third form (here's from Wiktionary):

(1) A storehouse for maturing wine, a winery.

(2) A store specializing in Hispanic groceries.

(3) (slang, New York) Any convenience store.

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#69

Post by briandear »

jacalata wrote: post #38
cossatot wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know a whole lot about the general outcomes of those slowly and progressively displaced by gentrification but in sufficiently small catastrophies (i.e. not Syria) the displaced lower classes often do better economically. For example, Katrina refugees who stayed away are reported to have more income and live in safer and less impoverished areas with better schools (e.g. [1]). The city is more diverse and afflu…

Your link is subscriber only - does it address selection bias, eg perhaps those who relocated had an existing advantage?

Not really. The relocated people generally arrived in Houston with nothing because they were evacuated to Houston and had nothing to return to in NOLA. Houston took in some of the poorest of the poor. I lived in Houston during Katrina (and actually was a catastrophe insurance adjuster,) so I saw it first hand. Many of those people got healthy FEMA money and were able to restart in Houston. However to be fair, the crime rate in Houston did spike due to some of the influx and the problems it brought (such as NOLA gang members getting into disputes with local gang members.) Overall though, it seemed to be a positive for most involved. (It did result in a much elevated Cajun/Creole cuisine due to the NOLA cooks that relocated!)

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#70

Post by briandear »

gogopuppygogo wrote: post #22
nefitty wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help interpreting your opinion as, "it's ok to kick the poor people out, as long as the upper classes, government and businesses prosper." People aren't numbers to throw into a mean function. That "net positive" argument is what has been used to excuse globalization's "there have to be some losers" philosophy, which disproportionately affects those already in poverty. A sense of community is one of the few th…

An "alternative to globalization", you say? I vote for Inter Planetary Commerce. Let's give Musk a $3T budget for a couple of years and see where we get. Plenty of jobs will be created if he can terraform Mars.

You think Musk is the right guy? He might be but his ability to build rockets and be a 'visionary' is directly proportional to the amount of funding he has received. It would seem like there could be others that could be even more effective than Musk if given the same resources.
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