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The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

theguardian.com

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Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#11

Post by mysterypie »

Xcelerate wrote: post #2

> I love looking in through the outside window and seeing everyone on MacBooks, it’s busy, it’s exciting and yet you’ll get someone walking passed saying ‘Oh my god, look in there, everyone is on a laptop! What’s wrong with them! Why don’t they talk to each other!?’ This is funny, because it perfectly describes the difference in attitude between me and my father. He gets annoyed when he walks into a coffee shop and s…

> I think the atmosphere is quite cozy, and love taking my own stuff to work on

I can remember a time (1980's and earlier) when the modern version of the coffee shop didn't exist.

The nearest equivalent was a bar: Dimly lit, filled with smoke, loud annoying music, aggressive people, and a waiter coming around every 10 minutes to ask/demand if you want another drink. If you dared bring in some papers or a book to read, you'd get dirty looks, rude comments, or worse.

Thank god for the modern coffee shop and the shift in attitude.

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#12

Post by santaclaus »

mysterypie wrote: post #11
Xcelerate wrote: post #2

> I love looking in through the outside window and seeing everyone on MacBooks, it’s busy, it’s exciting and yet you’ll get someone walking passed saying ‘Oh my god, look in there, everyone is on a laptop! What’s wrong with them! Why don’t they talk to each other!?’ This is funny, because it perfectly describes the difference in attitude between me and my father. He gets annoyed when he walks into a coffee shop and s…

> I think the atmosphere is quite cozy, and love taking my own stuff to work on I can remember a time (1980's and earlier) when the modern version of the coffee shop didn't exist. The nearest equivalent was a bar: Dimly lit, filled with smoke, loud annoying music, aggressive people, and a waiter coming around every 10 minutes to ask/demand if you want another drink. If you dared bring in some papers or a book to read…

The 1980s? I know a few coffee shops that are still like that.

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#13

Post by nxzero »

golergka wrote: post #10

Why is the author so quick to assume that everyone sees gentrification as something bad? There's been vocal opposition to it, but it doesn't mean that everybody feels that way.

Why Is Gentrification Such a Bad Word?

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/06/gentrifi...

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#14

Post by omonra »

"what everyone hates about urban change and gentrification – first come the creatives and their coffee shops, then the young professionals, then the luxury high-rises and corporate chains that push out original residents"

I personally have no problem with it. And if we're talking about crappy and dangerous neighborhoods that are becoming upscale - I love it.

If anything I think it's the sort of process that benefits majority of population while extracting a cost on a minority. If we look at total effect, it's certainly net positive.

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#17

Post by mc32 »

golergka wrote: post #10

Why is the author so quick to assume that everyone sees gentrification as something bad? There's been vocal opposition to it, but it doesn't mean that everybody feels that way.

When they don't have it people want it, and when they get it, they don't want it. Run down cities, rust belt cities wish for gentrification, people who live in places going down hill wish for it too, it brings safer neighborhoods, better stores, more jobs, on the other hand people decry rising rents and "changing the character" of the neighborhood, as if unemployment and the transients didn't also"change the character" of the neighborhood.

Basically people want it both ways. Have their cakes and eat them too.

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#18

Post by TulliusCicero »

omonra wrote: post #14

"what everyone hates about urban change and gentrification – first come the creatives and their coffee shops, then the young professionals, then the luxury high-rises and corporate chains that push out original residents" I personally have no problem with it. And if we're talking about crappy and dangerous neighborhoods that are becoming upscale - I love it. If anything I think it's the sort of process that benefits…

Fun related fact: when an area is gentrifying, more development is actually correlated with LESS displacement for the existing residents, not more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/12/the-p...

"...the California Legislative Analyst’s Office recently released some positive data backing up this point: Particularly in the Bay Area since 2000, the researchers found, low-income neighborhoods with a lot of new construction have witnessed about half the displacement of similar neighborhoods that haven’t added much new housing."

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#19

Post by Aelinsaar »

fenomas wrote: post #9
sergiotapia wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you a bot?

A bot that recognizes approximately-quoted pop culture references and provides their source would be a hell of a bot.

Oh boy... it's actually not that hard to imagine a future of spambot's running on neural networks. :/

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#20

Post by nefitty »

omonra wrote: post #14

"what everyone hates about urban change and gentrification – first come the creatives and their coffee shops, then the young professionals, then the luxury high-rises and corporate chains that push out original residents" I personally have no problem with it. And if we're talking about crappy and dangerous neighborhoods that are becoming upscale - I love it. If anything I think it's the sort of process that benefits…

I can't help interpreting your opinion as, "it's ok to kick the poor people out, as long as the upper classes, government and businesses prosper." People aren't numbers to throw into a mean function. That "net positive" argument is what has been used to excuse globalization's "there have to be some losers" philosophy, which disproportionately affects those already in poverty.

A sense of community is one of the few things poor neighborhoods can offer their inhabitants. When those impoverished people are elbowed out and away from each other to make way for another coffee shop, it becomes hard to sympathize with the moneyed class's desire for late-night gourmet poke.

Edit: Taking a look at TulliusCicero's WaPo link is making me reconsider my position.

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