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The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

theguardian.com

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Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#21

Post by sgillen »

nefitty wrote: post #20
omonra wrote: post #14

"what everyone hates about urban change and gentrification – first come the creatives and their coffee shops, then the young professionals, then the luxury high-rises and corporate chains that push out original residents" I personally have no problem with it. And if we're talking about crappy and dangerous neighborhoods that are becoming upscale - I love it. If anything I think it's the sort of process that benefits…

I can't help interpreting your opinion as, "it's ok to kick the poor people out, as long as the upper classes, government and businesses prosper." People aren't numbers to throw into a mean function. That "net positive" argument is what has been used to excuse globalization's "there have to be some losers" philosophy, which disproportionately affects those already in poverty. A sense of community is one of the few th…

What exactly would you offer as an alternative to globalization? Purely curious.

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#22

Post by gogopuppygogo »

nefitty wrote: post #20
omonra wrote: post #14

"what everyone hates about urban change and gentrification – first come the creatives and their coffee shops, then the young professionals, then the luxury high-rises and corporate chains that push out original residents" I personally have no problem with it. And if we're talking about crappy and dangerous neighborhoods that are becoming upscale - I love it. If anything I think it's the sort of process that benefits…

I can't help interpreting your opinion as, "it's ok to kick the poor people out, as long as the upper classes, government and businesses prosper." People aren't numbers to throw into a mean function. That "net positive" argument is what has been used to excuse globalization's "there have to be some losers" philosophy, which disproportionately affects those already in poverty. A sense of community is one of the few th…

An "alternative to globalization", you say?

I vote for Inter Planetary Commerce. Let's give Musk a $3T budget for a couple of years and see where we get. Plenty of jobs will be created if he can terraform Mars.

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#23

Post by paublyrne »

mc32 wrote: post #17
golergka wrote: post #10

Why is the author so quick to assume that everyone sees gentrification as something bad? There's been vocal opposition to it, but it doesn't mean that everybody feels that way.

When they don't have it people want it, and when they get it, they don't want it. Run down cities, rust belt cities wish for gentrification, people who live in places going down hill wish for it too, it brings safer neighborhoods, better stores, more jobs, on the other hand people decry rising rents and "changing the character" of the neighborhood, as if unemployment and the transients didn't also"change the characte…

Whats the point of having cake if you can't eat it?

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#24

Post by Terr_ »

mc32 wrote: post #17
golergka wrote: post #10

Why is the author so quick to assume that everyone sees gentrification as something bad? There's been vocal opposition to it, but it doesn't mean that everybody feels that way.

When they don't have it people want it, and when they get it, they don't want it. Run down cities, rust belt cities wish for gentrification, people who live in places going down hill wish for it too, it brings safer neighborhoods, better stores, more jobs, on the other hand people decry rising rents and "changing the character" of the neighborhood, as if unemployment and the transients didn't also"change the characte…

Or maybe people want a middle-ground (in outcome or in rate-of-change) which for whatever reason doesn't seem to be in the cards.

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#25

Post by mc32 »

paublyrne wrote: post #23
mc32 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they don't have it people want it, and when they get it, they don't want it. Run down cities, rust belt cities wish for gentrification, people who live in places going down hill wish for it too, it brings safer neighborhoods, better stores, more jobs, on the other hand people decry rising rents and "changing the character" of the neighborhood, as if unemployment and the transients didn't also"change the characte…

Whats the point of having cake if you can't eat it?

Sure, eat it and then you won't have any left. So, you can have the cake or you can eat it, but you can't have and also eat it.

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#26

Post by nefitty »

sgillen wrote: post #21
nefitty wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help interpreting your opinion as, "it's ok to kick the poor people out, as long as the upper classes, government and businesses prosper." People aren't numbers to throw into a mean function. That "net positive" argument is what has been used to excuse globalization's "there have to be some losers" philosophy, which disproportionately affects those already in poverty. A sense of community is one of the few th…

What exactly would you offer as an alternative to globalization? Purely curious.

I basically trust the process of globalization. "You don't go to war with your trading partners." The main fault I pointed out has to do with a lack of protectionary measures for the sections of society most at risk.

I think this also has relevance to the gentrification debate, though looking into the data it seems like governments continue failing on that front. I wasn't smart enough to come up with an alternative to capitalism when I was 15, I'm not smart enough to come up with an alternative to globalization now.

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#27

Post by mc32 »

Terr_ wrote: post #24
mc32 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When they don't have it people want it, and when they get it, they don't want it. Run down cities, rust belt cities wish for gentrification, people who live in places going down hill wish for it too, it brings safer neighborhoods, better stores, more jobs, on the other hand people decry rising rents and "changing the character" of the neighborhood, as if unemployment and the transients didn't also"change the characte…

Or maybe people want a middle-ground (in outcome or in rate-of-change) which for whatever reason doesn't seem to be in the cards.

You're either ascending, or you're declining as a city. Things don't remain frozen in time. People age, buildings age, new people are born, commerce brings people in, those are the dynamics.

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#28

Post by berntb »

Aelinsaar wrote: post #19
fenomas wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bot that recognizes approximately-quoted pop culture references and provides their source would be a hell of a bot.

Oh boy... it's actually not that hard to imagine a future of spambot's running on neural networks. :/

Hmm... A new idea for me, which probably will make someone here on HN rich:

Helpful bots that monitors your communication and suggests cultural jokes, to impress people?

Re: The caffeine curse: why coffee shops have always signalled urban change

#30

Post by johnmarinelli »

omonra wrote: post #14

"what everyone hates about urban change and gentrification – first come the creatives and their coffee shops, then the young professionals, then the luxury high-rises and corporate chains that push out original residents" I personally have no problem with it. And if we're talking about crappy and dangerous neighborhoods that are becoming upscale - I love it. If anything I think it's the sort of process that benefits…

i honestly can't tell if trolling or not.
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