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Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

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Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#171

Post by eagleal »

wheels wrote: post #165
eagleal wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you have a Visa/Residence permit (work) in one country you can freely move between all the EU countries. (I live in Italy with residence permit, so I know)

Usually you need a permanent residence permit (Greencard equivalent), and then it has to be a fairly recent one as the laws were only harmonized in the last 5 years. And even then, the permit for most of the EU isn't valid for the UK or Ireland. In Germany the first permit that you get (an H1B equivalent) is tied to one job, and hence, tied to the place where you have that job. After 5 years of working full-time (and…

My fault, I don't know why I confused the permit to stay (expires every 2 years) with permanent residence. Well, in Italy you just need a home and revenue to obtain a permit to stay (work related). The permanent residence or permit to stay doesn't lock you to the first job it was issued for, though.

However you can still (with the permit to stay) move between UE countries, just get back to Italy and declare revenue (as entrepreneur).

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#172

Post by davemc500hats »

briansmith wrote: post #164
davemc500hats wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

obviously the issue of how fast the INS is able to process legitimate green card applications is an issue, however i don't feel that it's a legitimate reason to exclude this new proposed legislation. we can attack the problem by focusing on improving INS processing times, rather than excluding other valid applicants (of any type). we are certainly not suggesting StartupVisa green card applicants "move to the front of…

My friend's applied for her green card 1.5 years ago. The best estimate for her getting the green card is 2017--about 8.5 years from the start of processing. That is the typical EB-3 wait time. Are you saying you'd have EB-6 applications also take 8.5 years?

i'm saying that solving INS processing times by not introducing new visa legislation is a rather ass-backwards perspective.

furthermore, the job creation / economic output benefits don't need to wait for green card processing to be solved.

there's being practical, and then there's simply being defeatist.

i'd rather be part of trying to provide solutions to INS processing times than to wait on innovative solutions to job creation & immigration reform.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#173

Post by kvs »

briansmith wrote: post #164
davemc500hats wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

obviously the issue of how fast the INS is able to process legitimate green card applications is an issue, however i don't feel that it's a legitimate reason to exclude this new proposed legislation. we can attack the problem by focusing on improving INS processing times, rather than excluding other valid applicants (of any type). we are certainly not suggesting StartupVisa green card applicants "move to the front of…

My friend's applied for her green card 1.5 years ago. The best estimate for her getting the green card is 2017--about 8.5 years from the start of processing. That is the typical EB-3 wait time. Are you saying you'd have EB-6 applications also take 8.5 years?

Why couldn't your friend apply in EB-1 or EB-2?

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#174

Post by davemc500hats »

briansmith wrote: post #166
dgallagher wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the letter submitted by Senators Kerry and Lugar, it would only affect resources for EB-5 visas (no mention of EB-3 visas): To make visas available, we would amend immigration law to create a new EB-6 category for immigrant entrepreneurs. We would draw from existing visas under the EB-5 category. The EB-5 permits foreign nationals who invest at least $1 million in the U.S., and thereby create 10 jobs, to…

That's not how it works. Whatever EB-5's don't get used eventually trickle down to EB-1, EB-2, and EB-3. They don't just go unused. If EB-6's start using them up, then there will be fewer EB-3's available every year.

i'm pretty sure that's incorrect, as the existing EB-5 visa allocations have a specific target of 10,000 visas (which are currently not even close to being used up, only ~1,000 are used every year).

if anything, prioritization is likely to work the other way: EB-1s first, then EB-2s, EB-3s, etc. see language below for EB-1 priority visa workers (with "extraordinary abilities"): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EB-1_visa

note: i am not an immigration lawyer (IANA[I]L).

you may also wish to review language for the Immigration Act of 1990: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_of_1990

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#175

Post by davemc500hats »

aditya wrote: post #138
davemc500hats wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

aditya: dude, if you can't create at least 5 jobs in 2 years with $250K in capital, you're a pretty pathetic excuse for an entrepreneur. this is not a handout, it's a hand up. we expect people to innovate, create jobs, and create positive economic results. we're trying to help those who are willing to help themselves. and yes, those entrepreneurs who are more capable -- that is, can run a business profitably at some…

Hah. The question is what happens when you fail. Obviously, if you have 100-250k, you can hire 2 people. But then what happens if the biz fails? You created 2 (probably more jobs) and now you're going to get kicked back to your own country? Or am I mis-reading this, and as soon as you hire 2 people you get your green card?

sorry, no free rides... if you fail, you have to start over again.

(that is: you can always start another business, pitch new investors for funding, and re-qualify for the new business. there is no restriction on multiple attempts, however you will have to convince investors you're worth a 2nd chance... or 3rd... or 4th... etc)

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#176

Post by kvs »

alex_c wrote: post #88

As someone who might be interested in this if it passes, I think it's a step in the right direction, and I don't really understand the objections. I think this is much better than an H1-B. In many ways, you have more control over your fate as an entrepreneur than as an employee - I've seen mentions of entrepreneurial servitude, but working for a company on a H1-B seems like a much more precarious position. In additio…

It's true current H1-B is broken or favors the employer. I think a fairly easy fix to that is to not bind H1-B to an employer and let the employee move around within the scope of the visa. This can alleviate some employers who take advantage of H1-B holders.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#177

Post by davemc500hats »

briansmith wrote: post #143
davemc500hats wrote: post #91

sorry i'm just seeing this thread now; been working all morning / early afternoon keeping up with posts & info on Startup Visa Act. i'll do my best to comment where appropriate based on my understanding of the proposed legislation. 1) people who want to "buy a VISA" (aka have the money to invest in a new business already) wouldn't need any new legislation. the existing EB-5 handles this. 2) VCs have no specific contr…

This would reduce the number of EB-2 and EB-3 visas available per year. Unused EB-5 visas spill over to EB-1, EB-1 to EB-2, EB-2 to EB-3. You are proposing to take the EB-5 spillover and give it to a group of people hand-picked by investors. That means little to know spillover from EB-5 -> EB-3. EB-3 applications will wait longer, and fewer of them will get their green cards every year.

again, i don't believe you're correct. i'm not aware that existing surplus unused EB-5 visas are used to "help" fill the backlog of EB-2 and EB-3 visas. there appears to be some surplus calculations going on between EB-1, 2, & 3 visas based on EB-1 priorities. i could be wrong; again i'm not an immigration lawyer.

that said, it could be argued there is some priority for immigrants who are helping to create jobs over those who are not. i'm not suggesting that position be used to set priorities in allocating visas, but it's not necessarily unfair that the backlog of some group visas has higher or lower priority than others.

it seems that you have a particular issue with your friend's visa being in backlog and not being approved, and that this is coloring your perspective on all other types of visas.

while i have sympathy for your situation, this is not a rational perspective from which to make an argument for prioritization of visas, imho.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#178

Post by davemc500hats »

lionhearted wrote: post #137
davemc500hats wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

perhaps a laudable goal, however: 1) not mutually exclusive to proposed Startup Visa Act 2) politically MUCH more challenging to pull off feel free to contribute to other efforts to promote your ideas. however, hope you don't feel the need to tear down our (complementary) ones that may be achieved practically & expediently. light a candle, don't piss on ours.

> light a candle, don't piss on ours. Hey mate, did you edit that into your comment or did I just miss it the first time? Because I upvoted you since I agree with the not mutual exclusive/harder to pull off thing, but no need to be crass like that. It doesn't help further the position we generally agree on, and clouds the discussion. tpt is a smart and good commentor anyways, even though we disagree some times - it's…

um, seriously... using the word "piss" is considered crass?

really, you must not read my blog.

i'm being incredibly civil in this discussion compared to my usual white-trash, immature, profane and loutish self.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#179

Post by davemc500hats »

tptacek wrote: post #130
davemc500hats wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

perhaps a laudable goal, however: 1) not mutually exclusive to proposed Startup Visa Act 2) politically MUCH more challenging to pull off feel free to contribute to other efforts to promote your ideas. however, hope you don't feel the need to tear down our (complementary) ones that may be achieved practically & expediently. light a candle, don't piss on ours.

Your idea isn't complementary to mine, and if it can't handle criticism on Hacker News, it certainly doesn't deserve to get a vote in the senate.

the criticism here is largely one-sided and poorly argued by a few such as yourself.

if you must make it zero-sum, then i'm quite willing to face the music in the senate.

so be it: have at thee, gauntlet thrown.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#180

Post by kvs »

tptacek wrote: post #94
alex_c wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which could be argued (by entrepreneurs looking for a startup visa) is still better than nothing. No, it's not perfect, but what alternative do you propose?

Drastically relaxing green card restrictions.

Relaxing doesn't have to mean give everyone a green card. It could mean, I think that's what Tom means, that don't tie it to a set of investors rather tie it to the performance of an individual. Create 10 jobs, make 1MM revenue, get them verified by IRS, you're in the clear.

If we look at H1-B situation, what makes employers abuse it and almost makes H1-B holders useless (for anything other than their current employment) is the tie visa has with the employer. If we make H1-B holders move around freely between jobs then there is less room for abuse. IMHO.

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