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Is the World Ready for a Guaranteed Basic Income?

freakonomics.com

31–40 of 133 posts

Re: Is the World Ready for a Guaranteed Basic Income?

#31

Why wouldn't all standard of living benefits of basic income get eliminated immediately by all relevant costs rising to soak it up? This happens every single time the poor get any sort of money. In poor neighborhoods the rents cost as much as people are able to pay, no more, no less. Do you know when most rental deposits are collected? Around the tax return season. If suddenly the poor had some money to spare - the r…

If all rents rise jointly that primarily indicates that housing is not competing on price, so remedying that anti-competitive environment is a separate and more important issue IMO.

Re: Is the World Ready for a Guaranteed Basic Income?

#32

Why wouldn't all standard of living benefits of basic income get eliminated immediately by all relevant costs rising to soak it up? This happens every single time the poor get any sort of money. In poor neighborhoods the rents cost as much as people are able to pay, no more, no less. Do you know when most rental deposits are collected? Around the tax return season. If suddenly the poor had some money to spare - the r…

You might be right. But it's not just about the income level. The important bit is that it's guaranteed. This theoretically will give the poor more leverage in negotiating the salaries etc., and they'll be able to get higher quality jobs.

Re: Is the World Ready for a Guaranteed Basic Income?

#33

Negative. Those with money will fight like hell to keep from giving it up. However if by some chance/miracle a guaranteed income is ever instituted, it will become a political football, as politicians and advocacy groups seek to continuously push it higher and higher. Instead of a money handout, I would rather support money in exchange for public works and service. I don't believe handouts without some kind of exchan…

Social security is basic income for those over 65. It is a football like you say but no one has dramatically increased it for decades. Besides the looming shortfall it seems to be run fairly responsibly.

SS is different in that presumably you have previously contributed to the funds which get disbursed at retirement. Recipients of BI may never have contributed monetarily to the burse.

Re: Is the World Ready for a Guaranteed Basic Income?

#34
post #20

Negative. Those with money will fight like hell to keep from giving it up. However if by some chance/miracle a guaranteed income is ever instituted, it will become a political football, as politicians and advocacy groups seek to continuously push it higher and higher. Instead of a money handout, I would rather support money in exchange for public works and service. I don't believe handouts without some kind of exchan…

I agree on the points of exchange for public good. Even poor people are loath to see others getting by on "freebies". But a progressive system where BI depends on need (age, for example) and commensurate effort (volunteering, helping take care of elderly, studying, training, etc.) I think is doable and will need to be worked out as more jobs get automated and people are left out of the economy either due to mismatch…

A large part of the Basic Income's appeal is that its simplicity would dramatically reduce government overhead. Existing entitlement programs are complicated as hell, and it takes a lot of work to enforce and refine eligibility rules.

Re: Is the World Ready for a Guaranteed Basic Income?

#35

Why wouldn't all standard of living benefits of basic income get eliminated immediately by all relevant costs rising to soak it up? This happens every single time the poor get any sort of money. In poor neighborhoods the rents cost as much as people are able to pay, no more, no less. Do you know when most rental deposits are collected? Around the tax return season. If suddenly the poor had some money to spare - the r…

You might be right. But it's not just about the income level. The important bit is that it's guaranteed. This theoretically will give the poor more leverage in negotiating the salaries etc., and they'll be able to get higher quality jobs.

> This theoretically will give the poor more leverage in negotiating the salaries etc., and they'll be able to get higher quality jobs.

How will it help them to get higher paying jobs?

Re: Is the World Ready for a Guaranteed Basic Income?

#36

Why wouldn't all standard of living benefits of basic income get eliminated immediately by all relevant costs rising to soak it up? This happens every single time the poor get any sort of money. In poor neighborhoods the rents cost as much as people are able to pay, no more, no less. Do you know when most rental deposits are collected? Around the tax return season. If suddenly the poor had some money to spare - the r…

According to your view, you cannot change anything ever. Take a look at microcredits. Give women in Africa $50 or $100 to start up their own business. They know exactly what to do, and it really helps. Isn't this something similar?

I recall a recent article about that. I really can't recall much of the detail - but it was about how after an immediate success from the monetary infusion, most of the bushiness folded shortly after because owners fell victims to corruption, extortion and crime. So yes, it is similar, but not in a good way. :)

Re: Is the World Ready for a Guaranteed Basic Income?

#37
It seems to me that the question of how to finance a UBI is probably the largest stumbling block.

Of course it could be done through taxes but a lot of people have legitimate concerns about government taxation. For taxation to work you need a coercive government and many of us are very aware of the downsides of such an entity. Of course taxation isn't the only reason we have a coercive government there's also the war on drugs and other policies which seem to ultimately derive from the need of a significant fraction of the population to dictate the choices of their fellow citizens. This tendency is of course inevitably amplified among those who self-select for government or political careers. There is also to some degree a legitimate need for self-defense which also inevitably leads to some degree of coercive government. But even if these problems could be solved, say for example through more rational and better focused defense policies and through evolution of ethical views to give greater weight to the desires of individuals to lead their lives as they see fit, if we are going to provide a safety net for everyone we will always need some form of government and if that government is financed through taxation a level of coercive and invasive policies is likely inevitable.

Could we find a better way to finance government and a UBI ? Some countries and regions with extensive natural resources have been able to leverage them to help finance their governments and provide assistance to citizens (examples I believe include Norway and Alaska). However most economies are not so strongly dependent on the exploitation of natural resources so this type of solution cannot be generalized. What if a nation's government became an investor in that nation's economy ? I'm not talking about nationalization of industry but allowing the government to acquire minority ownership of public corporations as a means not of exerting control but of generating income. Could we imagine government evolving to the point of relying for its financing on a financial portfolio much like some universities receive substantial income from their endowments ? I'm not an economist but I've never encountered this idea in the press. It would be interesting to know what the experts think of it.

Re: Is the World Ready for a Guaranteed Basic Income?

#38

Why wouldn't all standard of living benefits of basic income get eliminated immediately by all relevant costs rising to soak it up? This happens every single time the poor get any sort of money. In poor neighborhoods the rents cost as much as people are able to pay, no more, no less. Do you know when most rental deposits are collected? Around the tax return season. If suddenly the poor had some money to spare - the r…

The key difference is mobility. Basic income means people don't have to live in Philly near their job. They can move to Iowa and dramatically raise their standard of living.

Re: Is the World Ready for a Guaranteed Basic Income?

#39

Why wouldn't all standard of living benefits of basic income get eliminated immediately by all relevant costs rising to soak it up? This happens every single time the poor get any sort of money. In poor neighborhoods the rents cost as much as people are able to pay, no more, no less. Do you know when most rental deposits are collected? Around the tax return season. If suddenly the poor had some money to spare - the r…

According to your view, you cannot change anything ever. Take a look at microcredits. Give women in Africa $50 or $100 to start up their own business. They know exactly what to do, and it really helps. Isn't this something similar?

I think what the parent was referring to was that a universal increase of money supply basically leads to inflation.

I think. I'd welcome any clarification to my attempted summary.

Re: Is the World Ready for a Guaranteed Basic Income?

#40

Negative. Those with money will fight like hell to keep from giving it up. However if by some chance/miracle a guaranteed income is ever instituted, it will become a political football, as politicians and advocacy groups seek to continuously push it higher and higher. Instead of a money handout, I would rather support money in exchange for public works and service. I don't believe handouts without some kind of exchan…

I also don't believe it can't work long term unless attitudes change dramatically. People who work for a low income will complain that there are people who get almost the same without doing any work. The same wealthy people who lobby for more tax cuts will also not want to pay for people who don't do anything.

There will be a lot of people who will use the freedom granted by basic income for productive means but there will also be a lot of people who won't do anything productive and just live off their basic income.

That will give opponents a lot of material for campaigning against basic income. So my prediction is that this won't work long term. That is, unless our society changes in radical ways.

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