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Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

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Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#141

Post by tsally »

adw wrote: post #108
pg wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's such a dishonest way of describing the situation that it's hard to believe it wasn't deliberate. You describe this bill as if it merely allowed powerful people to get their friends into the country, and it's not like that at all. Startup investors are not identical with the rich and connected. Angel investors are generally fairly rich, but not all VCs are. And they're not choosing people at random to bring int…

To be fair, you can turn that round; my reading of what Brian said was that he thought this bill was open to abuse, which could make your reading seem disingenuous. Neither interpretation's fair to either of you, though. (I have no horse in this race; living in Europe, the idea of a visa seems a bit anachronistic, really.)

(I have no horse in this race; living in Europe, the idea of a visa seems a bit anachronistic, really.)

I can understand why visas might seem obsolete from a European perspective, but from an American perspective regulation is a necessity. Per year we already accept the highest number of permanent residents in the world. In 2008 we naturalized a record number of people. And most importantly, per year we grant the highest number of people political asylum. These numbers, combined with the fact that unemployment in the US is the highest it's been since the early 1940s, makes accepting large number of immigrants impossible.

I'm not defending this bill or the current system; I know there are areas that need improvement. But fundamentally the US needs some sort of visa system.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#142

Post by briansmith »

shawndrost wrote: post #123
tptacek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse. I think it will be somewhat unfair to visa aspirants and that it will distort the market.

I'm baffled. Should this bill pass, visa aspirants will be in a strictly better position. They will have all their old options, plus one. Can you explain how that is worse?

Unused EB-5 visa numbers spill over to EB-1, and EB-1 to EB-2, and EB-2 to EB-3. This bill would eliminate the EB-5 -> EB-1 spillover, which has the effect of reducing the number of EB-2 and EB-3 green cards available per year.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#143

Post by briansmith »

davemc500hats wrote: post #91

sorry i'm just seeing this thread now; been working all morning / early afternoon keeping up with posts & info on Startup Visa Act. i'll do my best to comment where appropriate based on my understanding of the proposed legislation. 1) people who want to "buy a VISA" (aka have the money to invest in a new business already) wouldn't need any new legislation. the existing EB-5 handles this. 2) VCs have no specific contr…

This would reduce the number of EB-2 and EB-3 visas available per year. Unused EB-5 visas spill over to EB-1, EB-1 to EB-2, EB-2 to EB-3. You are proposing to take the EB-5 spillover and give it to a group of people hand-picked by investors. That means little to know spillover from EB-5 -> EB-3. EB-3 applications will wait longer, and fewer of them will get their green cards every year.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#145

Post by nzmsv »

potatolicious wrote: post #61
ericb wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking from a country's self interest, don't rich people benefit the country more than poor? Isn't the US better off tax-wise, and wealthier, if it is able to tax a millionaire than a cab driver? Is there something morally objectionable about trying to attract "desirables" or is it just that we need to see the visa process in some way as "fair?"

Speaking as a Canadian who immigrated from Asia, and know a large number of rich Asians who have also followed the same path, the situation is really not as simple as you put it. The rich are in no way obligated to share their wealth with you - as the Canadian government has unfortunately learned. Our immigration programs have three paths: skilled labour, investment, and entrepreneurial. Skilled labour is simply lett…

Many countries, Canada included, have bilateral agreements on only taxing income once. So, if these people you know make money off foreign property, they pay taxes on it in the country where it is located. They do not have to pay taxes again in Canada. Which I think is fair: would you want to pay double taxes on your income?

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#146

Post by briansmith »

pg wrote: post #89
briansmith wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is anything I said false? Because I used the word "just"? Take out the word "just" and everything we both said is true: there are VC's that aren't rich, and rich people will be able to abuse this to get their friends green cards, while those without connections have to wait and work for 7-9 years to get their green cards. Look at http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_4659.htm... . It says that the U…

Ok, if what you meant to say was that the bill could be abused, let's examine that. What protections does it have against abuse, and why do you feel they're inadequate?

It effectively reduces the number of EB-2 and EB-3 visas available per year. That is my main objection to it. (I explained how in my two most recent posts in other threads of this discussion).

I recommend everybody to read the proposed change to the law. It is a very small "patch" that is easy to read and understand, especially once you've read the rest of the discussion on this topic.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#147

Post by ajju »

fnid2 wrote: post #119
ajju wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone wants to come to the U.S. and try to create a business and has it all lined out -- let them come! Has, what all lined out? There in lies the rub. If you let anyone who declares he is an entrepreneur in, the law will be a joke. Naturally, you have to have some firm qualifiers. As long as it is 5 jobs OR a million dollars in revenue OR investment and you have 2 (or 3) years to do it, I don't understand why t…

Perhaps I should ask you then, why would you take this visa deal instead of simply having the investors give you the money for you to create your business in your home country?

IMO, What country you should be in depends on who your customers are. Based on my experience, as a startup you should be where your customers are. If I was creating a business targeted at people in my home country, I would stay there and raise money there.

In this case, I am creating a business whose customers are in the U.S. And so, so am I. Just on a much slower route to permanent residency.

Were I not already in the U.S., other reasons for me to go the EB6 route rather than do business there could be

(1)If it is much much much harder to get VC in my home country

(2) If the kind of business I want to start can only be done in the U.S.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#148

Post by fierarul »

adw wrote: post #108
pg wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's such a dishonest way of describing the situation that it's hard to believe it wasn't deliberate. You describe this bill as if it merely allowed powerful people to get their friends into the country, and it's not like that at all. Startup investors are not identical with the rich and connected. Angel investors are generally fairly rich, but not all VCs are. And they're not choosing people at random to bring int…

To be fair, you can turn that round; my reading of what Brian said was that he thought this bill was open to abuse, which could make your reading seem disingenuous. Neither interpretation's fair to either of you, though. (I have no horse in this race; living in Europe, the idea of a visa seems a bit anachronistic, really.)

>(I have no horse in this race; living in Europe, the idea of a visa seems a bit anachronistic, really.)

Heh, there are still people in EU countries (Romania, Bulgaria the least) that need visas to work in another EU country. So it's not all rosy within EU borders either.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#150

Post by jseliger »

tsally wrote: post #141
adw wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, you can turn that round; my reading of what Brian said was that he thought this bill was open to abuse, which could make your reading seem disingenuous. Neither interpretation's fair to either of you, though. (I have no horse in this race; living in Europe, the idea of a visa seems a bit anachronistic, really.)

(I have no horse in this race; living in Europe, the idea of a visa seems a bit anachronistic, really.) I can understand why visas might seem obsolete from a European perspective, but from an American perspective regulation is a necessity. Per year we already accept the highest number of permanent residents in the world. In 2008 we naturalized a record number of people. And most importantly, per year we grant the hig…

"And most importantly, per year we grant the highest number of people political asylum. These numbers, combined with the fact that unemployment in the US is the highest it's been since the early 1940s, makes accepting large number of immigrants impossible."

This claim is specious: the high-end immigrants who are likely to start tech companies and earn PhDs are enormously employable and likely to employ others. If you want more employment, bring in people who are likely to make jobs; notice the high number of tech startups with founders who are immigrants or the children of immigrants.

Still, I doubt that these visas are going to have any noticeable impact on unemployment because the rate at which they'll be granted isn't going to be high enough.

As for immigration more generally, see James Fallows' comments here: http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/201001/american-decline . Allowing immigration is one of the relatively few things that America does right.

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