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Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

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Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#81

Post by tptacek »

neurotech1 wrote: post #72
andreyf wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're saying the same thing. To put it plainly, what I think tptacek is saying, is that after 3 years, investors have a strong upper hand in negotiating a round, knowing that "Homeland Security" has set an artificial bar for how much a company must raise if the founders are to stay in the country. Edit: he said it explicitly here - http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1148789

My whole point is they don't "have the upper hand" if you've already made $1m in revenue.

Yes. It just puts people with viable $900k/yr companies in a ludicrously bad negotiating position.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#82

Post by briansmith »

pg wrote: post #74
tptacek wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does it matter if there are good, hardworking, "non-rich" VCs? There are also bad, lazy, well-connected VCs. You're evoking the intentions behind this bill as if they mattered.

In this particular case the reason it matters is that it makes briansmith's comment false.

Why is anything I said false? Because I used the word "just"? Take out the word "just" and everything we both said is true: there are VC's that aren't rich, and rich people will be able to abuse this to get their friends green cards, while those without connections have to wait and work for 7-9 years to get their green cards.

Look at http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_4659.htm.... It says that the US government is just now processing applicants who filed under EB-3 back in 2001 and 2002.

Put the "EB-6" people in the same line as the EB-3 people and the proposed legislation becomes a lot more fair, but useless. Speed up the EB-3 process and lots of people stuck working under a H1-B would quit their jobs and start their own businesses. The could do so with the money they've saved, or negotiate fair deals with investors.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#83

Post by tptacek »

neurotech1 wrote: post #80
tptacek wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're at 500k already, you can probably pull off an EB-5. Regardless, I'm not all that concerned about the 500k entrepreneurs. I'm unclear on the "and" and "or" thing, too, but I think it's equally arbitrary to deport someone with 4 full-time employees for missing a $1MM mark, and I think 5 "full-time" employees is extremely gameable.

EB-5 says $1M investment NOT $1M revenue My interpretation is that you have 2 years to preform, and if you don't by the 3rd year - then you are deported, and not for missing the 2yr marks. You have 12 months of latitude if your heading in the right direction with employment. I do agree that there is going to be some gaming of the system.

I read the EB-5 rules before I commented. I stand by my comment.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#84

Post by [deleted] »

tptacek wrote: post #57
fnid2 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's entrepreneurial servitude. You come in and build a business to our specifications, making a certain amount of money for the rich investors or you lose your rights to live here. When the entrepreneur is booted out because (s)he was unable to generate $1M in revenue a year after 2 years in business, what happens to the business? Do the investors retain ownership? What legal rights does the entrepreneur have over t…

That's a good question. What happens to the Americans working for the company when its founder is forced to leave the country?

[deleted]

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#85

Post by briansmith »

tptacek wrote: post #57
fnid2 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's entrepreneurial servitude. You come in and build a business to our specifications, making a certain amount of money for the rich investors or you lose your rights to live here. When the entrepreneur is booted out because (s)he was unable to generate $1M in revenue a year after 2 years in business, what happens to the business? Do the investors retain ownership? What legal rights does the entrepreneur have over t…

That's a good question. What happens to the Americans working for the company when its founder is forced to leave the country?

They take all the intellectual property to the investors' other, wholly-owned company.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#86

Post by sdurkin »

pg wrote: post #64
briansmith wrote: post #26

This would just allow the rich and connected to choose thousands of people to budge to the front of a 3-5 year long line that other green gard applicants (EB-3) are waiting in. If there are resources available to process more EB-5's and EB-6's, then put them to use accelerating the process for the people that have already waited years for their applications to be approved. Accelerate that process and you'll accelerat…

That's such a dishonest way of describing the situation that it's hard to believe it wasn't deliberate. You describe this bill as if it merely allowed powerful people to get their friends into the country, and it's not like that at all. Startup investors are not identical with the rich and connected. Angel investors are generally fairly rich, but not all VCs are. And they're not choosing people at random to bring int…

"Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity." I think the grandparent is just looking to score a few cheap karma points by stirring up some populism.

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#88

Post by alex_c »

As someone who might be interested in this if it passes, I think it's a step in the right direction, and I don't really understand the objections.

I think this is much better than an H1-B. In many ways, you have more control over your fate as an entrepreneur than as an employee - I've seen mentions of entrepreneurial servitude, but working for a company on a H1-B seems like a much more precarious position. In addition, with this proposed visa there are clear targets to hit - you know what you're getting into upfront.

Talking about rich people bringing their friends into the country... as far as I understand it, it sounds like EB-5 is still much better suited for that. Pay $500,000 to start a business somewhere in rural America, and you're done - no strings attached, no work required (the business doesn't even have to be successful, unlike this proposal).

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#89

Post by pg »

briansmith wrote: post #82
pg wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this particular case the reason it matters is that it makes briansmith's comment false.

Why is anything I said false? Because I used the word "just"? Take out the word "just" and everything we both said is true: there are VC's that aren't rich, and rich people will be able to abuse this to get their friends green cards, while those without connections have to wait and work for 7-9 years to get their green cards. Look at http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_4659.htm... . It says that the U…

Ok, if what you meant to say was that the bill could be abused, let's examine that. What protections does it have against abuse, and why do you feel they're inadequate?

Re: Senators Kerry & Lugar Introduce the Startup Visa Act

#90

Post by alex_c »

tptacek wrote: post #81
neurotech1 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My whole point is they don't "have the upper hand" if you've already made $1m in revenue.

Yes. It just puts people with viable $900k/yr companies in a ludicrously bad negotiating position.

Which could be argued (by entrepreneurs looking for a startup visa) is still better than nothing.

No, it's not perfect, but what alternative do you propose?

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