Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Vim 8.0 is coming

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

401–410 of 420 posts

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#401

Post by Ericson2314 »

twblalock wrote: post #378
Ericson2314 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, why the downvote? I respect the good work that has been put into emacs and vim over the decades, and the good kick-in-the-but that spacemacs and neovim provide too. That said, programing via editing text is a completely primitive method, and I hope things like http://unisonweb.org/ will replace it. Even if one is not on-board the structured editing concept, with so much changing about the way we use computers an…

I like the idea that people who want to use things will be able to continue using them in the future. Nobody is forcing you to use them.

Of course I don't want to actually force people to change---that would be a very hollow sign of progress indeed! The hope is something else become vastly more common without anybody being coerced.

Today's IDEs are clearly not superior in all respects, or emacs and vim wouldn't have the usage they do. I hope whatever comes next can be more uniformly better.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#402

Post by cies »

ageofwant wrote: post #146
cies wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we have 2 winners: Emacs on the "platform" (superior scripting language (elisp), better external process management, better instrumentation). Vim on the modal-editing interface: you can find it in nearly all editors (and even browsers) nowadays. A combination of the two would be awesome, correction "is" awesome: http://spacemacs.org

And then of course people like the spacemacs leader-key binding and port it back to vim :-) https://github.com/jimmay5469/vim-spacemacs https://github.com/sunaku/vim-shortcut https://github.com/sthysel/vim-spacemacs

I should use that! I try to keep a vim config that is mostly compatible with my Emacs setup (for when I'm remotely logged in to a place that has my dotfiles, but not emacs).

Sure I know about tramp-mode, but sometimes having vim around saves the day.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#403

Post by coldtea »

nsajko wrote: post #373
coldtea wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it is. Not only in the sense that Vim is a clone of vi (with added stuff), but more specifically in that in lots of distros the vi command is just vim (with some special flags). Old BSD vi today is, and has been for over a decade or so, dead.

You could say that Vim is an (implementation of) vi, but vi is not Vim. (Not that this is an important issue.) Edit: also, vi is not dead: www.archlinux.org/packages/core/x86_64/vi

>You could say that Vim is an (implementation of) vi, but vi is not Vim

No, it's a derivative project. However, in lots of distros, when one runs "vi" they are actually running "vim" (in vi standards mode).

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#404

Post by Scarblac »

blueblob wrote: post #350
yitchelle wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, vim is not strictly vi although they were related. Amazing, I was 1 year old when both were started. How many other software package has such longevity? Unix and its various guises?

> To be fair, vim is not strictly vi although they were related. In the same sense, the emacs most people use is not the original one. Everyone uses GNU Emacs or Xemacs.

I considered that, but I thought it was fair to consider them one in the context of the history of vim vs emacs competition, especially since both the original Emacs and GNU Emacs were written by RMS.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#405

Post by coldtea »

Retra wrote: post #391
coldtea wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mice are not a 100% replacement for keyboards. And they're not used as such. They are used as complimentary to keyboards. On the other hand, mice-based GUIs ARE a 100% replacement for CLIs.

If you're willing to say a mouse GUI is 100% replacement for CLI, then I don't see why you can't argue that a clicking on a virtual keyboard makes physical keyboards obsolete.

Because CLI and keyboard access are two different things.

The fact that one can do all CLI work on a GUI doesn't mean that typing on a virtual keyboard is as convenient as typing on a physical one for typing tasks.

Are people under the impression that mice GUIs mean that one doesn't use the keyboard? Mice GUIs have both shortcuts AND text entry boxes a-plenty. They even have terminals.

It's the CLI that doesn't have access to all these stuff.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#406

Post by laumars »

pjmlp wrote: post #399
laumars wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason you can't have a CLI interface with graphics support. Granted the vt100-style terminals can't easily do it, but it was possible with the old REPL machines of the 80s (eg most micro computers which booted into a BASIC interpreter). There are some also some terminal emulators in Linux that support inlined graphics, however I'm not sure how easy it would be to run them as a WM.

Hence why we GUI guys rather use a REPL than a plain UNIX CLI. Graphics, the expressiveness of a sane programming language and interaction with the complete OS stack.

Firstly, Bash et al is a REPL in it's own right. What you're discussing there is that UNIX shells make a rubbish programming environment, which is a completely different argument to anything that was being discussed here. For example, DOS can inline graphics as well (proper DOS, not Windows' cmd.exe). So to follow the linked tangent you've made: DOSbox is also a better REPL than UNIX shells. Obviously neither of us would agree with that - even with our criticism of Bash et al. So equally your implied correlation is false.

Secondly, your point about "interaction with the complete OS stack", suggesting that CLI interfaces don't have access to the complete OS stack, is completely wrong. If that were the case then Linux and UNIX servers wouldn't typically run headless. A GUI is a shell. The CLI is a shell. Some platforms place more love to graphical shells than command line shells (eg Windows). Other platforms empower command line shells (eg UNIX). To argue that one is better than another is about as futile as saying the colour purple is better than the colour orange. In short, it's personal preference; not irrefutable fact.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#407

Post by ddacunha »

Ericson2314 wrote: post #316
Ericson2314 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's hope not.

Hey, why the downvote? I respect the good work that has been put into emacs and vim over the decades, and the good kick-in-the-but that spacemacs and neovim provide too. That said, programing via editing text is a completely primitive method, and I hope things like http://unisonweb.org/ will replace it. Even if one is not on-board the structured editing concept, with so much changing about the way we use computers an…

I think the down vote is that we see your comment as: "vim & emacs are glorified notepads". At least that is what went thru my head. But they are so much more than a way to type text, with emacs (which I don't grok) I manage my emails archive via gnus/mu/Maildir. Or do "Literal DevOps", check this out for something that still blows my mind with awesomeness: http://howardism.org/Technical/Emacs/literate-devops.html

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#408

Post by ed_blackburn »

ageofwant wrote: post #153
ed_blackburn wrote: post #29

With the age of their respective codebases, I'd love to know what lurks beneath? Immaculate, well factored code? A hornets nest of hacks - what do you expect from such old codebases - or have they been re-written so many times you'd never guess their ages from the codebase.

Pfft on immaculate, well factored code. All glory to battle hardened code that does the business everyday. Of course it would be better to have both. But don't dismiss code that survived the withering infernos of real world use. All those edge hacks are there because they probably need to be.

I completely appreciate that. 'Tis always a case of striking a balance. Even battle hardened code with countless edge-cases can be well factored. A system programmer whose opinion I trust greatly recently advised me to look at the postgress code for well factored, battle hardened code. I've heard others suggest that libgit2 is similar. I don't feel confident / qualified enough to comment.

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#409

Post by kh_hk »

Watabou wrote: post #351
kh_hk wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

vnoremap "+y

Just a minor nitpick, vnoremap creates a mapping for select and visual modes. You should use xnoremap as that's restricted to visual mode only. Select mode is used by snippet engines mostly, and you don't want this mapping to affect select mode.

will update my .vimrc to reflect that, thanks! nitpick appreciated

Re: Vim 8.0 is coming

#410

Post by mcepl »

fdej wrote: post #127
koolba wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite as old (circa 1978) but TeX is still alive and well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeX

Moreover, TeX has no serious competition (at least in the niche of typesetting mathematical documents). There are plenty of good text editors and IDEs to go around.

Lout (http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/lout) and troff/groff (https://www.gnu.org/software/groff/). Both do equations quite well, I would even prefer lout (it is a way more comfortable than LaTeX), but the lack of additional packages makes it inferior. Troff is older than TeX (not sure how old is eq package).
Post reply on HN