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Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

nature.com

171–180 of 208 posts

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#171
post #79
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect LSD and meditation might approach the same thing from different angles. LSD itself can force you to deal with thoughts in your brain you can normally filter or suppress—potentially similar to how meditation can reveal unconscious biases, fears, desires, etc. I don't think that meditation is CONTRARY to drugs. Ecstasy is pretty stupid as far as mind-drugs go. You experience intense happiness, pleasure, indee…

Why do you need a reason to love yourself?

I'm not quite sure what you mean. I certainly have fears, anxieties, and assumptions that build up in my mind that prevent me from taking the best care of myself as I can. I would be surprised if I were unique in this.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#172
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never had bad feelings on MDMA, or afterwards. No comedown either, on the contrary, plenty of afterglow. The interpersonal variability of these experiences is amazing.

Yeah but if you use it frequently you will.

Why?

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#173
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to hear about that :( The first time I took LSD (not hallucinogens in general, but LSD) went sort of similarly for me. Of course a life provides many confounding factors, but I ended up depressed and anxious for about three or four months afterwards. Took me a while to work my way out of it. I still think it was a worthwhile experience, but my symptoms weren't as bad as yours sound. I hope you're making a good…

I just don't get it why anyone would try a second or third time after you already had 3-4 months of depression and anxiety after the first trip? For me that would mean the end of my business and on top of that it would certainly hurt my relationships with other people. No way I'd ever do such a gamble.

[deleted]

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#174

I'm a Ph.D student in Cognitive Science and I'm currently writing my dissertation on the topic of conscious perception. I think this study is pretty damn interesting because the cingulate cortex (ACC & PCC) along with the thalamus are implicated in states of consciousness (i.e. wake/sleep/coma/vegetation/etc) and also in "access consciousness" (i.e.: “consciousness” in the sense of “I am conscious ​ of ​ such and suc…

I forgot where I read the idea but some neuroscientists proposed that consciousness in the brain is more a measure of interconnectivity of activated brain regions. Basically, whatever brain region communicates with each other allows for mixed matching, whatever that brain region does (synesthetic people are very concrete examples of this). What do you think? Could this be true? I find it interesting to consider but h…

It's generally accepted that information sharing between distant cortical regions is a hallmark, if not the mechanism of consciousness. From there, there are many takes on that idea.

Really, though, it helps to understand what led to the idea if you want to understand the scope of the theory. The first models of consciousness actually weren't; they were instead models of attention and executive control, but researchers began to tease out both the function and hallmarks of conscious processing in these theories.

In the late 50's, Broadbent published on the famous "cocktail party effect", which basically states that bottom-up (extrinsic) attention can cause interrupts. In other words, you can be engrossed in a conversation, but still immediately notice your name being called out from across the room. He proposed a simple model that involves two steps:

1. a set of parallel sensory buffers that store information temporarily (later became sensory memory, e.g. iconic memory)

2. a unique, limited-capacity "perceptual system"

The big idea is that certain operations can take place in parallel, while others are strictly serial in nature. Things like speaking are serial, but extrinsic attention is parallel and can quite literally interrupt a conversation. From there the model was refined in several ways:

Baddeley and Hitch (1975) propose that between each processing step is a "loop" (the most famous of which is the phonological loop) that maintains information by rehearsing. The "central executive" then coordinates, selects, and triggers the maintenance and activity of the peripheral systems that implement the buffers. We now have a basic theory of multitasking by context-switch.

Norman and Shallice (1986) further clarify the distinction between automatic, non-conscious processes and voluntary, consciousness-dependent processes. This distinction is what sets the stage for modern, neurocomputational theories and models of consciousness.

To review, each of these models has the following in common:

1. A central (albeit ill-defined) component that is associated (albeit incidentally) with conscious perception and deliberate behavior.

2. The notion of an "observer" entity that issues command & control operations. (Note: the philosophical criticisms on this particular point are largely responsible for the ensuing paradigm shift, see Daniel Dennett)

3. Some independent, parallel functions. I like to think of them as goroutines.

The modern take is that there is indeed a distinction between automatic-and-parallel processes and their voluntary-and-serial counterparts. The shift is in understanding the nature of this serial controller. We no longer see it as a volitional homunculus, but essentially as a router.

The idea was first formally proposed by Bernard Baars (1989) and is called the "global neuronal workspace" theory. The idea is that there are hundreds (if not thousands) of independent local cortical processors that perform specialized tasks, in parallel. Consciousness, then, is the act of allowing these processors to communicate with each other through long-distance cortico-cortical connections (in particular, a fronto-parietal network of pyramidal neuron axons... but I digress), and this routing/broadcast structure is called the Global Neuronal Workspace (GNW).

From there, there are many schools of thought about how local information is granted access to the machinery of consciousness. My Ph.D explores the theory that attention may be the gatekeeper of mechanism, the implication being that attention must intervene in order for consciousness to occur. Here's our latest publication, which shows that retroactively orienting attention towards an unseen stimulus can render it conscious after the disappearance of the physical source: http://goo.gl/dYdRcl The implication is that we have a "pre-conscious" (see: http://goo.gl/xQXjGe for an explanation of the term pre-conscious) stimulus encoded into the visual system, that is not consciously perceived, and that will never be consciously perceived unless acted upon by an outside force. We show that attention can serve as this outside force, thus arguing in favor of the GNW by virtue of the fact that no other theory posits such a level of access control on the machinery of consciousness.

>I find it interesting to consider but have a hard time understanding how the brainstem fits into this.

I suspect much of the confusion is related to terminology: you have to distinguish between consciousness and consciousness ;) It's well-understood that the brainstem (or rather, not the brainstem per se but the thalamus) regulates consciousness in the sense of sleep/wake/arousal. It also plays a critical role in cortical oscillation, and oscillation implies communication, which is necessary (but not sufficient) for consciousness.

>-- psych. & computer science student with a strong interest in cognitive science & neuroscience

Keep it up! Cogsci is increasingly computational, so we need hackers. We also need better software engineering... badly!

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#175
post #139

I'm a Ph.D student in Cognitive Science and I'm currently writing my dissertation on the topic of conscious perception. I think this study is pretty damn interesting because the cingulate cortex (ACC & PCC) along with the thalamus are implicated in states of consciousness (i.e. wake/sleep/coma/vegetation/etc) and also in "access consciousness" (i.e.: “consciousness” in the sense of “I am conscious ​ of ​ such and suc…

Interesting! Is there a brain region related to telling apart results of imagination and our actual perception that would work as a fail-safe mechanism?

The ACC is implicated in many, many, many things, but it always seems to rear its head when error-monitoring of some sort is involved. Any time you want to respond to a mis-prediction, an error of judgement, or some sort of high-level mismatch, you're pretty much guaranteed to see ACC involvement.

The theory goes that beyond some differential threshold, the ACC detects the mismatch between the perception (the tiger in my example) and the sensation (the actual input into the system) and then "does something".

We're not sure what that "something" is: it could -- to proceed by computational analogy -- raise an exception and signal some other process to regulate the system, or it may directly inhibit certain early visual neurons in an attempt to downplay percept.

This theory could also be completely wrong.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#176
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did ecstasy and i did LSD. Ecstasy is like a lie in this quote comparison. You get high in the beginning and it brings you down at the end, really awful feeling at the end. LSD is different, i experienced world differently even for couple of days after i took LSD. World seemed different. I knew what was important in life and what not, very clear. I can't describe how you feel on LSD, and people that didn't took LSD…

For a counterpoint to this - I decided to do 150 micrograms of LSD after reading a lot about it on HN, talking with many friends that had tried it or do it fairly regularly and reading as much as I could find (Sam Harris, Huxley, What the Dormouse said etc.). Nothing can really prepare you for it - the dream like state, the visuals and just the capacity of how different things can be. When looking at things I saw the…

Have you had any bipolar or schizoaffective symptoms in your past medical history? ...Or does anyone in your family by chance?

LSD (even small doses) is known to trigger manic episodes and schizophrenic breaks for those who suffer from such things -- oftentimes the person is not even aware they have the underlying problem until after it is triggered by drug use, which leads to the popular mythology of "folks who never came back from their trip."

Psychedelic-aware health practitioners would strongly advise anyone who has any history of schizoaffective or bipolar symptoms to avoid LSD at all costs. 'Shrooms won't hurt your brain though, and you can benefit from meta-cognitive reflection in that state just as well.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#177
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religion is what the unconverted soul does in order to do right by God. To "make it to heaven", so to speak, by doing good things and avoiding doing bad or downright ugly things. All attempts at pleasing God - i.e. religion - are doomed because you inevitably will fail to meet the standard, because it is an impossible one - i.e. don't lust for women in your heart. Just as I wrote that...probably a thought or an image…

> I'll stop here before I start to proselytize Too late. (Also: If the standard is an impossible one, that is a problem with the standard .)

theoretically.... it is possible to never act out of integrity. emphasis on theoretically.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#178
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religion is what the unconverted soul does in order to do right by God. To "make it to heaven", so to speak, by doing good things and avoiding doing bad or downright ugly things. All attempts at pleasing God - i.e. religion - are doomed because you inevitably will fail to meet the standard, because it is an impossible one - i.e. don't lust for women in your heart. Just as I wrote that...probably a thought or an image…

don't lust for women in your heart. Just as I wrote that...probably a thought or an image flew. Too late, you just sinned. Nope. A fleeting image or thought is lust in your mind , not in your heart. Incidentally.... Religion is what the unconverted soul does in order to do right by God Enlightenment is achieved by realizing one does not need God to do right.

My problem is that I don't trust my own sense of morality.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#179
post #168
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because you don't like the point doesn't mean I am mocking anyone - it's a legitimate point. What do you think the dissolvement of the self entails? No Self! You literally cease to feel like you exist independently of the rest of reality. You may be new to this kind of thinking, but some of us have explored this thought space fairly exhaustively. And it's not your role to come onto HackerNews, declare people as…

There is a categorical difference between "diminishment" and "dissolvement" [sic]. You keep asserting that the ur-comment's point is the removal of a "self". We're suggesting, instead, that there's value in a lessening of it (a notion which is actually rather well supported, if you take "self" to mean some of the egoic structures that people carry around, but which end up being more of a hindrance to a richer, more c…

Yes, it is a removal / diminishment / dissolvement / insert-word-here of the self, depending on the kind and amount that you do. That's what the article talks about, and that's what psychedelics do in general. And citing the OP:

"can psychedelics have lasting effects." (followed up by claiming that these lasting effects are positive)

You do not want the effect of the psychedelic to last, because you cease to exist as such when it's in action, and that's what I was replying to. It was followed up by a religious quote, and you may not be aware of this, but in religions such as Buddhism losing the self is considered to be enlightenment. Assuming this is a "permanent positive change" is extremely controversial, especially from a western perspective, and certainly from a psychological perspective. Psychedelics are dangerous because the default network may not reform.

Regarding your other comments, what you are doing is known as "junior modding" on the internet, and is generally frowned upon. Have a nice day.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#180
post #9
post #4

Pretty cool. I'd like to point out that meditation might have a similar dampening effect on the default mode network as well. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25904238 The question arises again, can psychedelics have lasting effects or is meditation the only way to create permanent positive change in that direction? Finally, a quote from a letter to Osho: "Many people are experimenting with the drug ecstasy. I hear…

I did ecstasy and i did LSD. Ecstasy is like a lie in this quote comparison. You get high in the beginning and it brings you down at the end, really awful feeling at the end. LSD is different, i experienced world differently even for couple of days after i took LSD. World seemed different. I knew what was important in life and what not, very clear. I can't describe how you feel on LSD, and people that didn't took LSD…

Your experience with ecstasy and mine are rather different. It may because I seek out the "pure" substance - MDMA, rather than E - but anecdotally it may also be due to differences in our natural serotonin. The "raver hangover" is pronounced (anecdotally) in people with naturally lower seratonin. Take 5HTP.

I recently phrased it like this: MDMA is like a colored light source. A little bit, and everything is brighter. You can see the colors of the light, and the things (other people) illuminated by it. A lot, and all you see are the colors of the light.

One of the things this means is that it introduces you to the "best" version of yourself. What it feels like to be that person is still a touchstone of mine.

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