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Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

nature.com

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Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#61

Post by lsd_throwaway »

martin1975 wrote: post #47
lsd_throwaway wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a counterpoint to this - I decided to do 150 micrograms of LSD after reading a lot about it on HN, talking with many friends that had tried it or do it fairly regularly and reading as much as I could find (Sam Harris, Huxley, What the Dormouse said etc.). Nothing can really prepare you for it - the dream like state, the visuals and just the capacity of how different things can be. When looking at things I saw the…

I'm gonna bet you're not addicted to any external substance and that in your case, this was purely a mind expanding experience. One could also say LSD might have unlocked what was already there in the background (i.e. "subconscious") of your mind. I would not consider this a bad trip. More like a rude awakening. Had you gone through something else in real life, major trauma of sorts, you may have experienced exactly…

I'm a fairly introspective person and I wouldn't say that it shook my world view - in the sense that I went in with a scientific world view and came out with one. I do have a better empathetic appreciation for mental illness and psychosis though (read And Then I Thought I was a Fish if you want to scare yourself). A trip makes you realize how incredible differently someone else's mind can perceive the world.

The challenging or scary part for me at least is when you rely on your own mind as a place where you can reason about things and then you start to worry if your ability to do that has been compromised.

The anxiety attacks after made me think that I really was dying or had a brain tumor or something and since I knew that the drug could no longer be in my system I got scared. I could no longer rationalize it as temporary affects of the drug. Researching all of the psychiatric information I could find online started to convince me that we know very little of how consciousness and mental illness actually work and I felt stupid for taking such a large risk.

Another thing I found scary is that a lot of healthy, normal people believe things I find absurd (like religion) and the information we're exposed to growing up seems to act as the training data for our neural net. I think consciousness emerged out of some evolved way to handle feedback and I didn't want to lose my ability to be able to reason about things.

The physical sensations after were really unpleasant (elevated heart rate, depersonalization, seeing visual patterns) and might have been caused by the anxiety that the LSD seemed to trigger. Also I had really low Vitamin D which seems to correlate with these kinds of issues too.

The fear of death I used to think about more than most people in a kind of distant way, but this experience made it feel imminent and traumatic - I think you're right that another life event could have caused similar symptoms.

I do worry less about things that aren't about people dying so maybe that's a good thing. It also comforts me a bit that everyone on earth is in the same boat, we're all sharing it for a limited time together and can work to make amazing things. Sometimes though, when I really think about the inevitability of dying it's still hard to go to sleep.

I think most people don't think about it.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#62

Post by stevedekorte »

jdpigeon wrote: post #5

Finally some good research on LSD in humans. Very interesting finding about the increased connectivity to the visual cortex. It certainly vibes with my anecdotal experience -- the whole visual world just seems more meaningful and 'in focus'. Tripping in an art gallery can be a real treat :)

I tried that at the Van Gough museum but got creeped out at seeing everyone ignoring each other and staring at walls and had to escape to a nearby park.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#63

Post by kr4 »

nefitty wrote: post #4

Pretty cool. I'd like to point out that meditation might have a similar dampening effect on the default mode network as well. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25904238 The question arises again, can psychedelics have lasting effects or is meditation the only way to create permanent positive change in that direction? Finally, a quote from a letter to Osho: "Many people are experimenting with the drug ecstasy. I hear…

Modern science hasn't even started to appreciate the existence of consciousness let alone validating which is the better method. The Himalayan yogic and tantrik traditions have gone to the depth of consciousness, dimensions, multiverse ETC, and literally have thousands of books written on the subjects (both practical and theoretical). There aren't only drugs but better mechanisms like mantras, rituals etc to actually experience different dimensions literally as you experience this physical dimension. Our mind acts as a filter to have us only perceive the quantum part of the reality for which 5 senses capture input. The rest is too magnanimous to even try to pen it down. The mind needs gradual training to be ready to experience those states or else it'd just damaged with information-overload as in case of LSD etc.

10k hours of intense concentrative meditation and you'd not remain a human forever. The expansion of consciousness would let you perceive dimensions at your will, move about in other worlds with subtle body and in this world you can literally look into someone else's mind and thoughts they're having.

But this science was, is and would never be available online, rather under direct guidance of an adept, who'd only impart it to worthy, selfless individual. as it stands a very good chance of miss-use by selfish individuals

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#64

Post by kr4 »

coldtea wrote: post #7
nefitty wrote: post #4

Pretty cool. I'd like to point out that meditation might have a similar dampening effect on the default mode network as well. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25904238 The question arises again, can psychedelics have lasting effects or is meditation the only way to create permanent positive change in that direction? Finally, a quote from a letter to Osho: "Many people are experimenting with the drug ecstasy. I hear…

> The question arises again, can psychedelics have lasting effects or is meditation the only way to create permanent positive change in that direction? Wait, how is the second settled? E.g. about "meditation" being a way (and much more, the "only" one) "to create permanent positive change in that direction"? I've known a few ex-monks that have been doing meditation for decades, and that have become as anyone since th…

meditation not done correctly and without guidance would mostly result in no progress. You should try meeting Om Swami [0] to check for yourself the man who has attained spiritual adeptness with meditation – he'd be in Canada next month.

0: omswami.com

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#65

Post by matt4077 »

nefitty wrote: post #4

Pretty cool. I'd like to point out that meditation might have a similar dampening effect on the default mode network as well. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25904238 The question arises again, can psychedelics have lasting effects or is meditation the only way to create permanent positive change in that direction? Finally, a quote from a letter to Osho: "Many people are experimenting with the drug ecstasy. I hear…

There are no 'lies' or 'truths' in this. It's all emotions, and they aren't meaningful at all. Meditation may have positive effects such as increased conscientiousness or ability to focus. But while certainly good, it doesn't have any of the meaning people like to ascribe to it.

Drugs aren't actually that different, except they're more dangerous because the effects of meditation are limited by the available time and exhaustion.

Also, I can't recommend experimenting with LSD. mdma and possibly ketamine highly enough. It got me out of a 10-year spiral of depression and at least the first two are self-limiting to a degree where the temtation to take it too often is low. Just stay away from cocaine (&derivatives) and all opiates.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#66

Post by kr4 »

jbhatab wrote: post #10
nefitty wrote: post #4

Pretty cool. I'd like to point out that meditation might have a similar dampening effect on the default mode network as well. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25904238 The question arises again, can psychedelics have lasting effects or is meditation the only way to create permanent positive change in that direction? Finally, a quote from a letter to Osho: "Many people are experimenting with the drug ecstasy. I hear…

The things you can experience and learn about people while on ecstasy and LSD don't even compare to meditation. Meditation is about silence in your mind and removing thoughts. The most profound effects I've seen from LSD and ecstasy come from when people interact with each other. They feel a sense of bond that is nearly impossible sober. People are free to express things with each other on these drugs and the mental…

The original goal of meditation isn't to solve mental problems (though it helps when you really have them) but rather to realize that you're not this body, mind, thoughts etc we often associate our selves with.

Yoga sutras starts with: The goal of Yoga is to regulate the modifications (tendencies) of mind, So the seer rests in its true nature.

The true nature of our consciousness (the seer) is existence-knowledge-bliss.

With meditation (which is 7th limb of yoga) practitioner increasingly progresses to realize his true nature eventually. It requires constant long effort and perseverance and right guidance.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#67

Post by adrice727 »

duaneb wrote: post #51
nefitty wrote: post #4

Pretty cool. I'd like to point out that meditation might have a similar dampening effect on the default mode network as well. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25904238 The question arises again, can psychedelics have lasting effects or is meditation the only way to create permanent positive change in that direction? Finally, a quote from a letter to Osho: "Many people are experimenting with the drug ecstasy. I hear…

I suspect LSD and meditation might approach the same thing from different angles. LSD itself can force you to deal with thoughts in your brain you can normally filter or suppress—potentially similar to how meditation can reveal unconscious biases, fears, desires, etc. I don't think that meditation is CONTRARY to drugs. Ecstasy is pretty stupid as far as mind-drugs go. You experience intense happiness, pleasure, indee…

> Ecstasy is pretty stupid as far as mind-drugs go. You experience intense happiness, pleasure, indeed ecstasy for no reason.

There's a reason why MDMA has had such a long history of use in psychotherapy, and it's not just because other psychedelics were taken off the table in 1971. When used in the right context, it can be a very useful tool for introspection and processing difficult emotions.

http://www.maps.org/research/mdma

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#68

Post by adrusi »

ChristianBundy wrote: post #21
lsd_throwaway wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a counterpoint to this - I decided to do 150 micrograms of LSD after reading a lot about it on HN, talking with many friends that had tried it or do it fairly regularly and reading as much as I could find (Sam Harris, Huxley, What the Dormouse said etc.). Nothing can really prepare you for it - the dream like state, the visuals and just the capacity of how different things can be. When looking at things I saw the…

I'm sure that any medical professional you saw has already told you this, but the symptoms you experienced are normal, and referred to as "hallucinogen persisting perception disorder", and I had a very similar experience. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucinogen_persisting_percep... The symptoms will go away, and you'll feel better. Promise. 150 mcg of LSD is, in my opinion, more than I'd recommend someone taking f…

What the parent was describing isn't HPPD, which involves sensory disturbances, usually minor optical hallucinations, and is mostly limited to people who used psychedelics heavily over a long period. The parent probably experienced the disturbances of mood that psychedelics can cause in the days following a trip, got panicked that something was wrong, and then the anxiety perpetuated their destabalized state. Or something else, but not HPPD.

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#69

Post by colordrops »

superswordfish wrote: post #54
colordrops wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, what was the answer? The poster you replied to specifically said he had no way of finding words to explain his experience. This is common with LSD trips and other such experiences. The very first line in the Tao Te Ching is "The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao." Some things are ineffable. For instance, it's not possible to explain the experience of the color red to a blind person. You can explain…

> This is common with LSD trips and other such experiences. What other experiences? > The very first line in the Tao Te Ching is "The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao." Some things are ineffable. So you're saying the parent commenter was made aware of the Tao? Or that it was a religious experience? I don't follow. > For instance, it's not possible to explain the experience of the color red to a blind per…

> What other experiences?

Fevered dreams, near death experience, deep meditation, orgasm, stroke, epileptic fits, etc.

> So you're saying the parent commenter was made aware of the Tao? Or that it was a religious experience? I don't follow

I wasn't making any claim about his/her experience of the Tao. It was simply to emphasize my point, which is that certain experiences can not be described or analogized, but must be experienced first hand.

> That's bogus. You're likening abstinence from LSD to a disability.

Why is that bogus?

> That suggests you agree that the past and future are connected and important.

No, I said nothing of the sort. I said that you can't experience the future and past. They are just ideas in your head. They are just conceptual tools that you use to better your experience. How can conceptual tools be as important as you actual existence?

Re: Brain scans reveal how LSD affects consciousness

#70

Post by martin1975 »

lsd_throwaway wrote: post #61
martin1975 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm gonna bet you're not addicted to any external substance and that in your case, this was purely a mind expanding experience. One could also say LSD might have unlocked what was already there in the background (i.e. "subconscious") of your mind. I would not consider this a bad trip. More like a rude awakening. Had you gone through something else in real life, major trauma of sorts, you may have experienced exactly…

I'm a fairly introspective person and I wouldn't say that it shook my world view - in the sense that I went in with a scientific world view and came out with one. I do have a better empathetic appreciation for mental illness and psychosis though (read And Then I Thought I was a Fish if you want to scare yourself). A trip makes you realize how incredible differently someone else's mind can perceive the world. The chal…

Religion is what the unconverted soul does in order to do right by God. To "make it to heaven", so to speak, by doing good things and avoiding doing bad or downright ugly things. All attempts at pleasing God - i.e. religion - are doomed because you inevitably will fail to meet the standard, because it is an impossible one - i.e. don't lust for women in your heart. Just as I wrote that...probably a thought or an image flew. Too late, you just sinned.

What's a chap to do in the face of the ever present human nature and its propensity to play God with anything and everything it can get away with? -NOTHING- seems like a really tall standard. Have you tried to do -NOTHING- lately in the face of whatever went on in your mind which was absolutely telling you to act?

Try that. And when you fail - and you will... MAYBE..and I say MAYBE then you might get a glimpse of how powerless we are as humans as well as our will to execute on what we know is right, but constantly fail to do.

Maybe this makes sense to you.. maybe it doesn't. My only advice is - keep being whomever you are... and you may, if you're humble enough, experience this conversion, past which there's no turning back.

The only two elements required to get to it is humility and faith..... in the end you will see Who God is, regardless.

I'll stop here before I start to proselytize or make even less sense.

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