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Bash on Ubuntu on Windows

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Re: Bash on Ubuntu on Windows

#301
post #49

I am a little scared from the distinction we are start to make between "computers" and "developers' computers" In most computer nowadays you cannot code (tables and smartphones), are computers doomed to be an expensive tool for few "nerd" ? What will be the impact on computer literacy ?

All of this will disappear within the next 5 years, as the distinction between programming and consumption narrows down. It seems like a vast majority of software developers, consciously or not, do not wish for software development to improve beyond a certain point as they fear it would become too accessible and therefore lower the value of their skills. The truth is that we actively make programming as difficult as…

Interesting ideas (even though your prediction regarding the next five years seems rather... bold). Where is this vision sketched in some more detail? Any links?

Re: Bash on Ubuntu on Windows

#303
post #181
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to http://stackoverflow.com/a/868290/259130 function directory-summary($dir=".") { get-childitem $dir | % { $f = $_ ; get-childitem -r $_.FullName | measure-object -property length -sum | select @{Name="Name";Expression={$f}},Sum} } I could get a shorter non exact version if I was on windows.

Microsoft provides a du implementation in sysinternals stuff, but you have to install it and I think even accept a licence in a graphical window the first time you launch it... They have neglected the CLI for years and powershell while I guess it has its uses for scripting is light years behind *nix stuff as an interactive shell.

>but you have to install it and I think even accept a licence in a graphical window

You can -accepteula from the command line and the "installation" is downloading and extracting a zip file. If there's an internet connection, you could even run it straight off of Micrsoft's servers via SMB.

Re: Bash on Ubuntu on Windows

#304

As I understand it, Microsoft has copied the Linux kernel system call interfaces and provided their own underlying implementation. Given that Microsoft supported Oracle's view that the structure, sequence, and organization of the Java programming interfaces were covered by copyright law, then surely they would also agree that the same holds true for the Linux kernel system call interfaces. I don't like the APIs-are-c…

Yes but they gave money to the Linux Foundation so that makes it all betterer...

/s

Re: Bash on Ubuntu on Windows

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It probably isn't if the attitudes in present IT world continue. But it doesn't have to be this way - about the only thing needed to fix this situation is to create an expectation that yes, you have to sit down and spend 5 minutes learning before you can use this stuff effectively. Somehow nobody complains that cars, or microwave ovens are too complicated. Everybody knows they have to learn how to use them - either t…

Most people really do not care enough to learn past a 'just use it' detail. Are my parents or family interested in password managers ? Heck no... why should they, because the browser will remember stuff for them. Permissions ? You have to be joking... they want to read their email or draw a picture. Computers are there to make life easy - they're convenience tools (for the mass market). If people have to understand t…

> Most people really do not care enough to learn past a 'just use it' detail.

True, but there is still some learning to do. The only way you can reduce it (barring solving general AI and making a system that actually knows what you mean) is by reducing the things a device/piece of software can do. That's what the industry is doing - cutting out features, turning software into shiny toys. Because from the market perspective, is enough that the people sign up / buy the product - it doesn't have to be actually useful.

That's why software for professionals look complicated - because there the company actually has to make a useful tool. This state of thing is sadly a big loss for humanity - if the only way to make stuff "sexy" is to make it barely useful, then the general population is in fact missing out on all the amazing things technology could allow.

(And the tech people are missing out too, because they're too small a niche. It's more profitable to target the masses instead. That's why all mobile devices are getting dumber.)

> It's not the IT world... for years, we were outcast as geeks and nerds (they were insults in the past). It's that the average person doesn't want (or need) to know about this.

Oh but it is the IT world. We've been invaded by the "normal people" and we've lost the battle. Most programmers employed nowadays are not much different from your average non-tech person, and have nowhere near the technical expertise you'd associate with the "geek and nerds" of the past.

> How many people service their own car ?

I'm not talking about servicing, but about driving. You have to spent 30+ hours in training to be allowed to drive on a public road. Nobody complains because people understand that to use the car well, you have to learn how to do it.

Re: Bash on Ubuntu on Windows

#306
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, there are many (excellent) AST based editors. However an AST editor based on a keyboard, and requires you to learn to type at 160 WPM, won't help most tablets be good code creation devices. Data structures are shapes. A shape is better drawn than described in text.

My point is - there are AST-based editors and languages (e.g. Emacs with Paredit and Common Lisp) and you can see that even in that mode of "thinking" about code, you can't beat the speed, efficiency and flexibility of the keyboard. > Data structures are shapes. A shape is better drawn than described in text. Draw me a linked list. Tell me how much faster it is than typing: (list 1 2 (foobar) (make-hash-table) (list…

> Draw me a linked list

I don't normally use linked lists, but here's an array:

"list joe (subtle gesture) mary (subtle gesture) dave end

If I wanted to delete dave from the list I could grab it and slide it away or say "list delete last".

> Tell me how much faster it is than typing

Everyone in the room I'm in now can talk at 200 words per minute and use their hands. Very few of them could type that fast.

Re: Bash on Ubuntu on Windows

#307
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plain text files are an incredibly powerful way of "storing ASTs", the advantages are far too numerous to list. The primary one being complete and total interoparability with all other tools that accept plain text files. I will bet you £100 that we won't be programming by speech and gestures in even 25 years time as the disadvantages are enormous.

> I will bet you £100 that we won't be programming by speech and gestures in even 25 years time as the disadvantages are enormous. Unless AI advances considerably. For years I've imagined myself talking to the small specialized AI living in my computer, giving it instructions that it would translate to code...

I suddenly envision a "The feeling of power" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Feeling_of_Power )-type scenario, where one programmer suddenly discovers that he or she can understand and create binary patterns without relying on the AI.

Re: Bash on Ubuntu on Windows

#309
post #77

I honestly don't really see the point in this. If you like Ubuntu/Linux more, then just install Ubuntu/Linux on the computer without Windows. Why go through the additional layer of Windows? Perhaps the use case is limited to people who need to run Windows/Mac-only software like AutoCAD or some Adobe software.

I like the Unix command line, but I don't really like Desktop Linux anymore (after having it used for >10 years), that's why I use OS X at home. At work I'm required to use Windows because I develop Windows software, so it's actually quite exciting that I get to use my most useful Unix utilities on my work computer as well.

> I don't really like Desktop Linux anymore

I used KDE 3 and Gnome 2 for many years (Windows also). and switched to LXDE/OpenBox after KDE 4 and Gnome 3 turned out to be unusable.

Although my current desktop is very simple it has become one of my best desktops ever because it can be configured to the extreme. It is very suitable for developers who want a clean workspace which doesn't get in their way like all the other modern desktops (Win 8+ also) which focus more on eye candy than usability.

Re: Bash on Ubuntu on Windows

#310
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is - there are AST-based editors and languages (e.g. Emacs with Paredit and Common Lisp) and you can see that even in that mode of "thinking" about code, you can't beat the speed, efficiency and flexibility of the keyboard. > Data structures are shapes. A shape is better drawn than described in text. Draw me a linked list. Tell me how much faster it is than typing: (list 1 2 (foobar) (make-hash-table) (list…

> Draw me a linked list I don't normally use linked lists, but here's an array: "list joe (subtle gesture) mary (subtle gesture) dave end If I wanted to delete dave from the list I could grab it and slide it away or say "list delete last". > Tell me how much faster it is than typing Everyone in the room I'm in now can talk at 200 words per minute and use their hands. Very few of them could type that fast.

> "list joe (subtle gesture) mary (subtle gesture) dave end

How will you go about drawing "joe" and "mary"? Is it faster than typing? Note that you can't always select stuff from dropdowns - you often have to create new symbols and values.

> Everyone in the room I'm in now can naturally talk at 200 words per minute.

How fast they can track back and correct a mistake made three words before? Or take the last sentence and make it a subnode of the one before that? Speech is not flexible enough for the task unless you go full AI and have software that understands what you mean.

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