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Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

en.nostalrius.org

31–40 of 141 posts

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#31
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that the Lich King was the last "good" patch for WoW. What I've never understood though was there is clearly some residual demand for "down rev" versions of the game where the mechanics favored a more engaged play style, why not facilitate it? How much does it really cost to run a single realm at the Vanilla, TBC, and LK levels? So many new players where their first experience with Onxyia was soloing…

> Just not the same as 40 people trying to bring her down without falling to the whelp adds. It's worth noting that Wildstar launched targeting the hardcore WoW raider experience. It failed miserably since targeting only a single-digit percentage of WoW's playerbase is not a profitable business decision.

The comparison between Wildstar and Vanilla WoW is a complete misnomer.

I played both Nostalrius and Wildstar extensively and the two were nowhere close in terms of scale, depth of world, community, lore, or any other metric you can think of really. The boss mechanics, housing, and soundtrack were great but the game was incredibly lackluster otherwise. Lore had some potential with the Drusera arc being interesting.

As for the bad: PvP balance was a trainwreck. Quests were meaningless as you'd get 30 at once and blow through each on in a couple minutes. Rep grind rewards were poorly balanced. Instances offered little reason to run them repeatedly and relied too much on the interrupt mechanic. The world was much less atmospheric barring some neat zones like Farside that you had no reason to return to after leveling through. Itemization was dull with no interesting items or stats. No secondary professions. No cosmetic pets. Instanced zones. I could go on and on but that touches on most of the major issues.

Oh, and while I love addons they needed to be more careful with just how powerful they could be within their poorly planned economy. I coded an autocrafter for the Architect profession in the first couple days and basically botted (legally) $1500 worth of currency @CREDD rates in a single week. Fun for me but rather unhealthy for the economy itself.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#32
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming the open source software was freely licensed, why would hosting an alternative server not be legal?

I think it's because players have to download an old version of WoW in order to play. This is a full game download and includes artwork and music IP content. Not to mention it means there is no need to pay a monthly fee to Blizzard. Blizzard is fully in their right to shut it down, but it's unfortunate the current state of things. This is not about getting around paying for WoW. Vanilla WoW is practically abandoned-w…

Legally they might be within their right, but cases like this really demonstrate to me that there ought to be some legal concept of abandonware when a product is substantially modified from its original state.

What precedent does it set that you have no legal right to retain access to software in the form that you've paid for it? If Gabe Newell went insane tomorrow and fired all employees then shipped patches making all Valve titles unplayable is there really no legal recourse for the people who bought those games? This is a case of the law being behind the technological realities in my opinion.

(and yes I know there's probably some EULA cop-out about how you don't own the client and merely paid for a temporary license to it or blah blah blah)

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#33
Wow, this is eerie for me! I literally just sat down on my computer to create an account to play on Nostalrius and see this on HackerNews.

Talk about synchronicity!

Here's a neat info graphic of what Nostalrius had achieved (found on /r/wow): http://i.imgur.com/jxtOQlu.jpg

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#34

I learnt programming from running an ultimate online server back in the day. A little sad to seeing an(I assume), open source server like this being taken down. As an admin we use to run on the premise of, if we weren't told not to run it, we could. Probably not 100% legal but it seemed to work. It does make me wonder if they take the server down, is it because their subscription dropping so much?

Assuming the open source software was freely licensed, why would hosting an alternative server not be legal?

As mj said in reply, we were worried about the face our clients used the artwork, even if it wasn't their servers.

In our mind it became quite complicated as we wernt sending them the ultimate files, just responding to their requests. So I think it's safe. But I am not sure how wow servers work.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#35
post #7
post #4

I used to be involved with this sort of thing, and it's actually pretty interesting stuff. There are enormous open source projects, operating largely out of public sight, that have recreated the WoW server backend in most of its glory. The lower-level content works quite well these days, though a lot of complex raid scripts are missing or broken. This one is probably the most popular: https://github.com/TrinityCore/T…

One could argue that the Lich King was the last "good" patch for WoW. What I've never understood though was there is clearly some residual demand for "down rev" versions of the game where the mechanics favored a more engaged play style, why not facilitate it? How much does it really cost to run a single realm at the Vanilla, TBC, and LK levels? So many new players where their first experience with Onxyia was soloing…

They've answered this directly numerous times. Compared to their user base, the demand is essentially zero while the development, maintenance and support costs are massive.

More importantly, the resources they have are better used developing new things for their existing properties which is what statistically all their paying customers actually want. The most persistent and universal complaint about Blizzard is that they don't produce content as quickly as their audience demands and consumes it. They'd be foolish and negligent to waste their time on anything else.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#36
post #11
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that the Lich King was the last "good" patch for WoW. What I've never understood though was there is clearly some residual demand for "down rev" versions of the game where the mechanics favored a more engaged play style, why not facilitate it? How much does it really cost to run a single realm at the Vanilla, TBC, and LK levels? So many new players where their first experience with Onxyia was soloing…

My personal intuition is that splitting your userbase like this is disastrous for a game in the long-term (to say nothing of my intuition that 90% of people longing for "the old days" are just looking for a quick hit of nostalgia, with no intent to pay long-term). However, it's worth mentioning that Runescape now officially offers a "classic" version of the game alongside (and separate from) the modern version, which…

You know that is an argument about expansions in the first place? Significant player dropoffs in WoW happen in the last patches before new expansions. The userbase usually spikes up on new releases, but almost always drops lower every time, predominately because new releases gate players who were on old versions against those on the new one. Friends stop being interested, unsub, and never come back because the player base is fragmented across every level cap WoW has had.

I've always thought that level caps in MMOs, particularly the WoW variety slash-and-burn where you basically make a new theme park every two years and throw the last one in the dumpster in terms of player viability, is a destructive cycle not conductive to building real living worlds.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#37
It's worth noting amidst all the debate about whether it's feasible or worthwhile to offer older versions of the game as server options, blizzard has already done this for a long time with Diablo 2. You could (can still) choose to play classic or expansion on the legit battle net servers, and both had ( possibly still have ) vibrant communities. So it's not like this would be particularly novel as an idea to them, I'm surprised they haven't done it with wow already.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#38
I used to work for a private server that shut down in 2010 (Phoenix Wow). It was my first exposure ever to a big code base, teamwork with version control and some reverse engineering. The "cores" were usually forks of the Mangos project (TrinityCore, R2) written in C++ and pretty unstable (uptime was usually only hours). If Rust existed in that era it would've been much better.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#39
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming the open source software was freely licensed, why would hosting an alternative server not be legal?

I think it's because players have to download an old version of WoW in order to play. This is a full game download and includes artwork and music IP content. Not to mention it means there is no need to pay a monthly fee to Blizzard. Blizzard is fully in their right to shut it down, but it's unfortunate the current state of things. This is not about getting around paying for WoW. Vanilla WoW is practically abandoned-w…

The problem legally is Blizzard is going to have an extremely hard time proving a private server user downloaded an unauthorized copy of WoW from a third party rather than from Blizzard themselves when the version they are playing was the live version.

There are a lot of nuanced stipulations involving the legal distribution of the Wow client:

* The game has always been distributed using peer to peer seeding, such that Blizzard has never been the exclusive provider of game data, they just told users where to get the data from. * Blizzard has in several cases (mostly early on) recommended users download whole copies of the game from third party websites like fileplanet back in the day when the servers were overloaded with players updating to new versions of the game. * Blizzard has always made WoW available as freeware, and has never auth-gated the download pages before the Battle.net launcher. Old versions of the game used to have installers hosted on Worldofwarcraft.com that anyone could download with a URL regardless of being signed in or not, and users could make accounts without buying the game anyway.

This isn't some classical "game developer sells copies for money and people were sharing copies without permission". Today, anyone sharing WoW clients through torrents is obviously violating blizzard IP, but the distribution methods of the client in the past, combined with the fact no player needed to have an account or paper trail showing they had a legit "claim" to the game to have the client, means they cannot realistically argue that anyone playing a private server also violated their copyright on the client. They could have easily obtained it legally, and just changed the home server to a private one so it never updated. That is a violation of the ToS in the game, but not an IP violation, and ToS are civil matters that are often not even upheld in court when tested, and WoW has a fairly grandiose ToS if it were ever put in a real trial.

Re: Blizzard shutting down Nostalrius, popular WoW private server

#40
post #22

A lot of commenters are suggesting a server that runs old patches, like Jagex and RS. This is essentially the definition of cannibalization and almost never a good idea. IMO Jagex only got away with it because they explicitly released a new version of the game that was totally different. Unless WoW's next expansion is WoW 2.0 with totally different mechanics, I don't see them hosting an old server.

Each version of WoW in general has completely different mechanics. Between different versions of the game they have changed effectively everything. If you were to play the live version of the game today and compare it to vanilla, it is much more different in both mechanics and technical implementation than a lot of standalone independent games have been by significant margins. Just think of Doom 1 and 2, or more recently Wolfenstein: The New Order vs The Old Blood, or CoD Black Ops 1 and 2. All those pairs of games reused game assets and engines almost verbatim, with much more similar or identical game mechanics compared to how much Blizzard changes between versions.

The argument these players make is that the version of WoW today is not the game they bought or played in 2006 at all, and by every metric you would measure "difference" in besides "is this the game Blizzard entertainment today calls World of Warcraft?" it would be measurably more different than dozens of games we consider independent products.

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