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Classism in America

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Re: Classism in America

#221

Post by n0us »

CPLX wrote: post #198
WalterBright wrote: post #133

I once went out to lunch at a modest restaurant with a couple friends, one from a wealthy eastern family and one from poverty. The former was dressed like a slob, the latter in a nice suit. I was fascinated how the former exuded class in how he comfortably dealt with the waiter and the wine list, etc., while the latter clearly was desperately trying to do that and failing. The difference was apparent even in how they…

The Wire, which of course is an absolutely excellent longform meditation on class, has a couple really great scenes illustrating this exact thing: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xhhJVYK4nvQ http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WmGemNT7urY

The other one where D'Angelo takes his girlfriend to the restaurant and also when Stringer realizes he has been played are good examples.

Re: Classism in America

#222

Post by cmurf »

JetSpiegel wrote: post #202
WalterBright wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back in the middle ages, when the French conquered Britain, the ruling class spoke French and the peasants spoke English. A lot of French words flowed into English as a result. But even today, if people use the words of French origin rather than the old English words, one is regarded as being from the upper class, such as using 'purchase' instead of 'buy'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_words_of_Frenc.…

That's the reason for the animal/meat duality, right? Such as pig/pork, beef/cow. The working classes spoke English and dealt with the live animals, the elites just ate them.

chicken, duck, goose, pheasant, squab / poultry?

Re: Classism in America

#223

Post by Intermernet »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #107
Intermernet wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The troops example is a tricky one. Many people disagree with war as a way to solve problems, but respect that soldiers aren't actually responsible for said wars, and are doing a horrible job in horrible circumstances. Thus you can support the troops, but deplore the actions of those who caused them to be there in the first case. I do agree that volunteering at a veteran's hospital would be a perfect way to contribut…

> I do agree that volunteering at a veteran's hospital would be a perfect way to contribute though. I'd like to explore this statement a moment - know that I mean absolutely no offense. Would you agree that volunteering at a hospital for wounded ISIS fighters is similarly noble?

I think that helping people who are suffering is a good idea. Nobility doesn't really enter in to it.

If you put a US doctor into a hospital for wounded ISIS fighters they'd probably help. Humans are humans.

Re: Classism in America

#224

Post by henrikschroder »

Animats wrote: post #168

From the article: "Most people are very ignorant of the norms and values of the social classes more than one degree above or below their own." Somewhere, there must be a "how to" guide for social class. There's a questionnaire, but other than some meaningless content on Quora, not much guidance.[1] Where there is guidance, it's about language usage.[2] The classic on this being, of course, "My Fair Lady"[1]. This is…

> Somewhere, there must be a "how to" guide for social class.

The upper classes constantly change the performance, because when lower classes catch on to a certain performance, it is immediately discarded. The elites are trend-setters, and they are constantly making damn sure that it's hard to quickly learn how to perform.

Re: Classism in America

#225

Post by [deleted] »

hyperliner wrote: post #136
todd8 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I'd rather be at the mall than mow my yard. I pay someone to do that. I'd rather be at the mall than work on my own plumbing. I pay someone else to do that. The key point is that at some level I'd rather be at the mall that work as a software developer, but I'm really good at that so that's what I do instead of goofing off at the mall all day. We should do what we are most productive at, in this way we contribute…

But how do you know you are not a better soldier? Assuming you are in the USA, there is no mandatory military service. Who is to say you are not great one, but you just don't know? On another angle, the point is not about being a soldier specifically. How about doing intelligence, or translation, or manufacturing, or X, or Y, or Z for the purpose of fulfilling whatever mission the President has decided is important?…

[deleted]

Re: Classism in America

#226

Post by Intermernet »

wcummings wrote: post #59
Intermernet wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The troops example is a tricky one. Many people disagree with war as a way to solve problems, but respect that soldiers aren't actually responsible for said wars, and are doing a horrible job in horrible circumstances. Thus you can support the troops, but deplore the actions of those who caused them to be there in the first case. I do agree that volunteering at a veteran's hospital would be a perfect way to contribut…

>respect that soldiers aren't actually responsible for said wars, and are doing a horrible job in horrible circumstances. This doesn't really hold up, there are more dangerous jobs than "soldier" and they get no respect. No holidays. No parades. No ceremony. Militarism is a cult.

Militarism is a cult, and there are worse jobs, however blaming the soldiers for wars doesn't solve the problem. It's like blaming bank managers for the state of the economy.

Idealistically, if you could convince all of the soldiers on both sides to not fight, then you stop the wars, but realistically you need to convince the populations and leaders of the states they are fighting on behalf of that war is a bad idea in the first place.

This cult is propagated by civilians more than soldiers.

Re: Classism in America

#227

Post by refurb »

tamana wrote: post #69
secstate wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fascinating. I remember reading something a while ago about the loss of regional accents (there's a great "Downeast" accent up here in Maine that no one has anymore, except lobstermen). People like to blame mass media, but in reality it's mass communication and the stigma of having a thick Brooklyn, Southie, or Downeast accent that encourages folks to pretend they don't have one. On the flip side, there is som…

And remember: if he had encountered a black civilian at that moment, the civilian would not have escaped with his life.

I don't think that's true if it had been a black woman. I'd argue that it was the sex of the person more than the color that got him in trouble. Men commit a lot more violent crime than women do.

Re: Classism in America

#228

Post by smm2000 »

norea-armozel wrote: post #79
kelukelugames wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel programmers have made it econimically. I know a large number of devs in their 30s who make over 200k a year. But we haven't climbed the social ladder as well. Maybe that follows the money.

Yep, that's definitely my situation in life. Still working class despite the salary. It's like the areas that are suppose to be open to me seem hostile to my mere presence. I'm not sure if it's the way I walk, talk, act, or whatever. Just the look on certain people's faces really tell me that I'm not welcomed or "one of them" without a single word said on the matter. It's so weird being aware of it now after all thes…

What places are not welcome to you? I am genuinely curious. Is it regular high-price places (3 star Michelen restaurants, business lounge in airport, five star hotels) or closed clubs and such?

Re: Classism in America

#229

Post by hoka »

JPKab wrote: post #11

Because of where I grew up (rural South and Appalachia), my native accent is something that I've learned to mask in all professional settings. It doesn't matter how immaculate my grammar is: in the profession of software engineering, southern accent = ignorant bigot who can't be trusted. People's biases, conscious or otherwise, are noticeable. The irony is that I practice "code switching", so basically my coworkers h…

I lived in the south for some time, and being from the midwest ('no' accent), I was always called a yankee. Sometimes as a joke, but there were plenty of cases where it made me feel uncomfortable.

Re: Classism in America

#230

Post by juejuli »

wil421 wrote: post #27
JPKab wrote: post #11

Because of where I grew up (rural South and Appalachia), my native accent is something that I've learned to mask in all professional settings. It doesn't matter how immaculate my grammar is: in the profession of software engineering, southern accent = ignorant bigot who can't be trusted. People's biases, conscious or otherwise, are noticeable. The irony is that I practice "code switching", so basically my coworkers h…

I'm from Atlanta and still live here. You wouldnt know I was from the South because of my accent, I have none. I did kill my accent in grade school when kids made fun of me for saying words different. In my limited experience working with others, southern accent = ignorant bigot has not been something I have seen with my co workers. People usually just shrug it off but I can see why a country accent may be looked dow…

> I did kill my accent in grade school when kids made fun of me for saying words different.

Ha ha amazingly I can detect a southern accent even in your writing! ('different' when someone not from the south would say 'differently')

Language is amazing isn't it.

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