Classism in America • Hacker News Board

Re: Classism in America

#141

Post by quanticle » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 9:41 PM UTC

henrikschroder wrote: post #100

arcanus wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being from Europe, I was also weirded out that almost all discussions of class in the US was about money. The subtle differences between the USA and Europe on this subject are quite interesting. Another one is that in the USA, being branded as 'upper class' is pejorative and instantly implies you are rich, spoiled and not likely to be a hard worker, if you work at all.

> being branded as 'upper class' is pejorative That's also fascinating, because in the US, wanting to be rich is seen as a very positive thing. Everyone is supposed to be living the American Dream and improving their lives, but reaching the end goal is a bad state? Hilarious. And where I'm from, wanting to be rich is seen as an ugly thing, the only socially acceptable ways to be rich is to win the lottery or be a spo…

>but reaching the end goal is a bad state? Hilarious.

To make a defense, reaching the end goal implies that one (or more likely, one's children) have stopped striving, stopped contributing to society, and are enjoying a parasitic lifestyle of indolent luxury.

More to the point, it makes sense that "upper-class" is pejorative in the US because the US was settled in large part by people from Europe fleeing from the aristocratic upper-class there. The people here specifically wanted to contrast themselves from the rentier upper-classes in the "home countries".

Re: Classism in America

#142

Post by TaylorGood » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 9:48 PM UTC

Have a friend with tattoos everywhere; his recent remarks about a local yacht club had a layer of loath attached. It's as if he despises my 1) access and 2) ability to stroll around (no visible tattoos). He grew up inland, I didn't. His mom thinks money is bad, my family doesn't. The difference in the details make all the difference !

Re: Classism in America

#143

Post by peterwwillis » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 9:49 PM UTC

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #44

Geography plays a huge role in determining social classes and the perceptions of them. It also influences spending habits.[1] In New York, for example, it has been shown that people across the income spectrum there will pay more than the national average for shoes and watches. New York is very wealthy and urban, so you are always walking and being seen in your shoes (and checking the time) and it confers a sense of c…

Weird example if you ask me. New Yorkers get about an hour of physical activity a day just from transportation, and have a culture of looking more attractive than in other cities, which includes fitness. I find it pretty hard to find a fat person on the subway in NYC.

In contrast, few people in Florida away from the beach seem to work out at a gym, and very few people bike (drivers there see cyclists as fun moving targets). It's often too gross outside to do physical activity, whether it's raining or hot as balls.

Re: Classism in America

#144

Post by santaclaus » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 9:50 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #11

Because of where I grew up (rural South and Appalachia), my native accent is something that I've learned to mask in all professional settings. It doesn't matter how immaculate my grammar is: in the profession of software engineering, southern accent = ignorant bigot who can't be trusted. People's biases, conscious or otherwise, are noticeable. The irony is that I practice "code switching", so basically my coworkers h…

Tim Cook has a southern accent.

Re: Classism in America

#145

Post by superdude264 » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 9:55 PM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #11

Because of where I grew up (rural South and Appalachia), my native accent is something that I've learned to mask in all professional settings. It doesn't matter how immaculate my grammar is: in the profession of software engineering, southern accent = ignorant bigot who can't be trusted. People's biases, conscious or otherwise, are noticeable. The irony is that I practice "code switching", so basically my coworkers h…

If it makes you feel better, Fred Brooks of System/360 ("mainframe") fame has a pronounced Southern accent, and is a Turing award winner.

Re: Classism in America

#146

Post by blakeyrat » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 9:55 PM UTC

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #92

jff wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget "flyover states", to be uttered in the same tone of disgust as "southerner"!

Yup, same deal. The city dwellers always despise the rural folk they depend on.

The only reason I even live within commuting distance of a large city is because that's where the only good-paying tech jobs are. If I had been a, say, banker or a mechanic or a plumber I'd be able to work in any town in the country, but no, dumb me had to become a computer programmer.

If I could participate in this career/industry from a smaller town, you bet your butt I'd do it in a second.

Re: Classism in America

#147

Post by santaclaus » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 9:55 PM UTC

forrestthewoods wrote: post #134

JPKab wrote: post #11

Because of where I grew up (rural South and Appalachia), my native accent is something that I've learned to mask in all professional settings. It doesn't matter how immaculate my grammar is: in the profession of software engineering, southern accent = ignorant bigot who can't be trusted. People's biases, conscious or otherwise, are noticeable. The irony is that I practice "code switching", so basically my coworkers h…

Seattle is wildly bigoted against Southerners. Wildly. It's a real problem.

Really? I'm originally from the south but have had zero issues in the northwest -- everyone is super mellow.

Re: Classism in America

#148

Post by skrjabin » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 9:55 PM UTC

nkurz wrote: post #123

kbenson wrote: post #82

I haven't finished the article yet, but one thing that strikes me is the flamboyant use of vocabulary. Given the topic, I'm not sure whether it's just a peculiarity of the author, an attempt to tailor the reception of the piece with regard to specific audiences, a slight trolling or the reader, or a combination thereof. For example, early on we get "impecunious" and "shibboleths", followed up shortly afterwards with…

You ask in another comment whether you are oblivious. Playfully, I respond "Yes, you are oblivious". Using "shibboleth" as a shibboleth is itself a shibboleth. She's declaring her bona fides (gratuitous Latin is also a shibboleth, especially if highlighted with italics) as a scholar by demonstrating her ability to use an obscure term correctly, and is being gracious to her audience by assuming their comprehension. Sw…

The author is obviously self-aware and this is precisely what makes it frustrating. Nearly every point is obfuscated through ornamentation, or broken up into parenthetical statements like a jigsaw puzzle. The entire article could be summarized in a concise paragraph with minimal loss of meaning. It's just pretension.

Re: Classism in America

#149

Post by arethuza » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 10:06 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #30

dboreham wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much everyone in or from Scotland (true or not) does this to some degree.

For me, the Scottish accent is the hardest of the English accents for me to understand. I work with English speakers from New Zealand/Australia and India to the UK/Ireland. English and Scottish sayings/slang are my favorite. Southerns have some good sayings but they are not as enjoyable for me to hear, maybe because I used to them.

There are quite a lot of Scots accents and dialects - my wife, who is from near Glasgow, can't understand a word of anything said in the dialect I used as a kid as I'm from a completely different part of Scotland (Moray).

Indeed when I was growing up even though I was in a rural area people who lived on farms had a noticeably different accent from those of us who lived in coastal fishing villages even though the farms might only be a kilometer or so from the coast.

e.g.

“A ken a ken im, but a da ken far a ken im fae.”

or

"I know I know him, but I don't know where I know him from".

And of course, I was a "wee loonie" when I was younger.

Edit: Of course, the biggest crime I commit when it comes to class is, of course, using "toilet" rather than "loo".

Re: Classism in America

#150

Post by kyleblarson » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 10:10 PM UTC

zeveb wrote: post #34

JPKab wrote: post #11

Because of where I grew up (rural South and Appalachia), my native accent is something that I've learned to mask in all professional settings. It doesn't matter how immaculate my grammar is: in the profession of software engineering, southern accent = ignorant bigot who can't be trusted. People's biases, conscious or otherwise, are noticeable. The irony is that I practice "code switching", so basically my coworkers h…

It's remarkable to me how folks who would never, ever be seen to say anything rude about other races (or who would only do so very obliquely) will quite loudly smirk about how much they hate Southerners, how stupid they think Southerners are &c. It's all just class. One can be just as intelligent with a Southern accent as one can be stupid with another.

If one hasn't visited the South and relies on current events and news to derive an opinion on the area it's hard to blame them for thinking the southern states are in a race to the intellectual bottom.