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How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

washingtonpost.com

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Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#81

Post by mindslight »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #54
ekianjo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Arguably in a democracy we Americans should all be blaming ourselves for that Maybe as a nation if you consider that the term makes any sense, but for the most part this has started to happen before most Americans alive today were born. Like always there is not a single date in History where you can pinpoint a decisive moment where the Constitution was destroyed, it's been a progressive and "death by thousands cuts…

I would argue that date was in 1917, when President Wildon founded the Committee on Public Information to sell WWI to Americans. The committee then hired Edward Bernays, who was struck by the ability for war to motivate people, and used his uncle Sigmund Freud's theories on psychoanalysis to contrive ways to get people to do or buy things they normally wouldn't. The stunning success of psychologically tuned propagand…

What about 1861, when the mutual agreement of the Constitution was reinterpreted as an inescapable suicide pact? I don't think there's necessarily a specific turning point - it seems a long line of gradual erosion.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#82

Post by tremon »

l3m0ndr0p wrote: post #43
tremon wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you'd rather have weapons yourself than an accountable government? That explains a lot, I feel.

tremon - When a government has all of the weapons and the means to use them against the population, you no longer have an accountable government. This is how it is today in America and it appears to be getting worse. I don't condone violence, but the current system encourages it. Our current US government wields powerful weapons called: Justice, Democracy and Law. The government is controlled by a few, who are making…

Our current US government wields powerful weapons called: Justice, Democracy and Law

Actually, this is part of the point I was trying to make -- democracy and law are weapons of the people, not of the government. The whole "murrica is the only free country because we have guns" mantra is getting more than a bit tiresome. Not just because it's old and untrue, but also because it's a race to the bottom: because of gun laws, your government now uses grenades and body armour to maintain order. That's not peace nor freedom.

What I was trying to point out was the innate fear and distrust between American citizens and the state. It's become so ingrained that "I won't move to another country because they won't allow me my guns" is apparently valid reasoning among the thinking 1% of the population.

I could have phrased it a lot less bitter than I did though, and your response made me put in the effort. So thank you for that.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#83

Post by boosting7669 »

nxzero wrote: post #79
boosting7669 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet a jury convicted him. This kind of thing is far beyond the comprehension of the common juror. Knowing what I know about computer security and how EASY it is to plant digital evidence without leaving a trace, even from thousands of miles away, I'd have to see video evidence of the defendant downloading the material as it happens before rendering such a verdict, especially if it's going to mean decades in priso…

In the US, juries are not required to follow the law: SOURCE: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification RELATED TEXT: "A jury can similarly unjustly and illegally convict a defendant on the ground of disagreement with an existing law, even if no law is broken (although in jurisdictions with double jeopardy rules, a conviction can be overturned on appeal, but an acquittal cannot)."

I don't understand how this is relevant to my comment. Please explain

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#84

Post by jnbiche »

webjprgm wrote: post #51
jnbiche wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Arguably in a democracy we Americans should all be blaming ourselves for that. I'll accept the blame for spending so many years falling for the two-party system. For that I'll take my blame. But for voting for candidates who turned out to be nothing like they presented themselves? Who outright and repeatedly lied during election season? (and here I'm talking about more than just the presidential level) I'm a reason…

Booted out by whom? The board of directors votes. Well, that is We the People who have to vote in this case.

> Well, that is We the People who have to vote in this case.

Well, you go on and boot out the current incumbents, and then vote in the next wave, and see what happens.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#85

Post by Delmania »

sneak wrote: post #14

Tell me again why well-off American programmers continue living in that country without the most basic of human rights? It's time to go. You can still access us-east-1 from the civilized bits of Europe, you know. It has now been between 2 and 10 years since the time where it became totally unreasonable to continue living there while other options are available to you. Don't wait until the trumped-up federal charges.…

> Tell me again why well-off American programmers continue living in that country without the most basic of human rights?

My family. I have a dream of moving to Iceland, Norway, or Sweden and becoming an expatriate. My wife and children do not share that.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#86

Post by jnbiche »

soperj wrote: post #78
jnbiche wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Arguably in a democracy we Americans should all be blaming ourselves for that. I'll accept the blame for spending so many years falling for the two-party system. For that I'll take my blame. But for voting for candidates who turned out to be nothing like they presented themselves? Who outright and repeatedly lied during election season? (and here I'm talking about more than just the presidential level) I'm a reason…

Booted. That's a laugh. They get paid handsomely to leave.

> That's a laugh. They get paid handsomely to leave.

Fair enough. I was trying to make an analogy about the leaders being held responsible. If you can think of a better one, I'll change it.

That said, I can tell you from personal experience (as seen in a friend) that nearly any corporate executive who gets booted by the board or CEO will be tremendously bruised and hurt by the ordeal. Yeah, it's a punishment most of us would bear for a x million dollar retirement/severance package, but it's still no walk in the park.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#87

Post by jnbiche »

tar_z wrote: post #61
jnbiche wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Arguably in a democracy we Americans should all be blaming ourselves for that. I'll accept the blame for spending so many years falling for the two-party system. For that I'll take my blame. But for voting for candidates who turned out to be nothing like they presented themselves? Who outright and repeatedly lied during election season? (and here I'm talking about more than just the presidential level) I'm a reason…

what do you consume then?

I talk to people, online and off. Like this.

After a ~5 year period of strictly avoiding mainstream media, I do now occasionally read non-political stories from Times, Wapo, Wall St Journal, etc, but I'm very cautious and aware of potential biases when I'm doing so. And I limit my total consumption of those sources to a few stories a week.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#88

Post by rl3 »

>Jeff Fischbach, a forensic technologist for the defense, said there is no evidence that the child pornography was ever seen by anyone who used the computer, much less Gartenlaub.

>The government’s own forensic expert, Bruce W. Pixley, said he could not find any evidence of the material being downloaded onto any of the computers, the defense noted. That means it had to have been copied onto the computer — but by whom is unknown.

This guy was still convicted regardless, not to mention the fishy nature of the case.

I've always thought that so-called "Advanced Persistent Threats" or state-level actors—considering the ease and degree to which they can own most targets—are very likely capable of planting incriminating evidence with such precision so as to appear forensically sound in virtually every regard.

In reality though, it seems all that's required is removable media, rudimentary technical skills, and a dumb jury.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#89

Post by vermontdevil »

SeanDav wrote: post #55

If, during the entire history of the USA, some FBI agents had never been proven to be corrupt, if judges had never been proven to be corrupt, if evidence had never been proved to be planted by authorities, then maybe, just maybe this would be justified. In the real world, however, this is very, very scary and I consider myself lucky I am not subject to this travesty. Since there does not appear to be any proof that h…

Yep. Ever since the days of John Adams willing to defend the British soldiers, it's obvious those with mob mentality of those in power can roughshod over anyone they deem guilty.

A right to defend yourself against any charges is a critical right and I fear it's being eroded with all these "national security" excuses.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#90

Post by rm_-rf_slash »

mindslight wrote: post #81
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that date was in 1917, when President Wildon founded the Committee on Public Information to sell WWI to Americans. The committee then hired Edward Bernays, who was struck by the ability for war to motivate people, and used his uncle Sigmund Freud's theories on psychoanalysis to contrive ways to get people to do or buy things they normally wouldn't. The stunning success of psychologically tuned propagand…

What about 1861, when the mutual agreement of the Constitution was reinterpreted as an inescapable suicide pact? I don't think there's necessarily a specific turning point - it seems a long line of gradual erosion.

It's all about how you read your history. You could just as easily point to the amendments expanding voting rights to men without property, then freed slaves, then women, and so on, as an aberration of the founders' original design.

I prefer to look at it through the lens of propaganda because it marked the beginning of an era when big changes in culture and society can be reliably made through subtle manipulation instead of conquest or impassioned public debate.

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