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How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

washingtonpost.com

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Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#41

Post by ekianjo »

enlightenedfool wrote: post #36
ekianjo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like, it has become like that. Because of complete disregard/disrespect for the US constitution. The constitution had numerous safeguards to restrict abuse of power, but the Federal Government is completely sitting on it.

It will get worse when electorate instead of choosing the right candidates, chooses the more electable ones. The constitution cannot provide safeguard against ill-informed electorate. Not just the US, applies to any democracy. Most democracies have similar awesome constitution texts.

One of the key issues in elections is that candidates promise stuff to specific interest groups - which is basically the same thing as buying votes (with future government funds, on top of that). That kind of behaviour should be explicitly forbidden and should be prosecuted because it actively damages Democracy.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#42

Post by Zigurd »

delinka wrote: post #22
sneak wrote: post #14

Tell me again why well-off American programmers continue living in that country without the most basic of human rights? It's time to go. You can still access us-east-1 from the civilized bits of Europe, you know. It has now been between 2 and 10 years since the time where it became totally unreasonable to continue living there while other options are available to you. Don't wait until the trumped-up federal charges.…

To where? What government on the planet doesn't have this kind of power over its country's citizens? Of the governments you can list, how many of those countries actually have civilization where a non-native wouldn't have to fear for their lives?

Some governments have similar power written into law, but lack the technical means and budget to use them.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#43

Post by l3m0ndr0p »

tremon wrote: post #26
x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't see any other "free" countries. Most lack a fundamental freedom of speech or a right to bear arms. Where is this utopia of freedom you think exists? As someone who's ancestors helped fight for and found this nation, it's hard for me to just give up on it.

So, you'd rather have weapons yourself than an accountable government? That explains a lot, I feel.

tremon - When a government has all of the weapons and the means to use them against the population, you no longer have an accountable government. This is how it is today in America and it appears to be getting worse. I don't condone violence, but the current system encourages it.

Our current US government wields powerful weapons called: Justice, Democracy and Law. The government is controlled by a few, who are making decisions behind closed doors that only benefit themselves. They have the mechanisms in place to enforce the will of the state against any human being for any reason.

You can be accused of anything by the government. You can be locked up without due process. Just because you don't see it everyday, doesn't mean that it's not happening. It's here in the USA.

Remove the weapons from the state. Forbid the use of force and violence against any citizen that resides in the USA. We should be focused on Peace, Truth, and Justice. Do no harm to yourself or to others.

Peace can never be delivered at the end of a a weapon or a writ of law. it must come from within.

peace

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#44

Post by darawk »

To be honest, nothing about this seems particularly bad. It seems like circumstantially there was some evidence that he may have been a spy, the government executed a FISA warrant on the basis of that belief, and then found evidence of child porn.

I'm not generally a fan of secret warrants or broad search and seizure powers, but this really doesn't strike me as a particularly bad case. This seems, by and large, like an eminently reasonable and successful use of those powers.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#45

Post by webjprgm »

darawk wrote: post #44

To be honest, nothing about this seems particularly bad. It seems like circumstantially there was some evidence that he may have been a spy, the government executed a FISA warrant on the basis of that belief, and then found evidence of child porn. I'm not generally a fan of secret warrants or broad search and seizure powers, but this really doesn't strike me as a particularly bad case. This seems, by and large, like…

The article has one sentence about the videos being on a beach house computer that someone else could have used. So just from this article it is unclear exactly how damming that evidence is, but it is possible it was not his fault that the illegal videos were on his computers. So first suspicion and second being charged for something he didn't do but could not get out of because he didn't have access to all the legal information necessary.

At least that is a possibility. If he really is guilty then I don't feel bad for him.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#46

Post by tptacek »

darawk wrote: post #44

To be honest, nothing about this seems particularly bad. It seems like circumstantially there was some evidence that he may have been a spy, the government executed a FISA warrant on the basis of that belief, and then found evidence of child porn. I'm not generally a fan of secret warrants or broad search and seizure powers, but this really doesn't strike me as a particularly bad case. This seems, by and large, like…

I'm not super alarmed by this case, but the precedent is disquieting.

Here it seems like FISA was used to get a secret warrant to build a counterespionage case; the warrant was targeted and specific. There's some unpleasant strong-arm tactics at play, but nothing out of the ordinary (in particular: you can definitely be the subject of a warrant for which the search more or less exonerates you, but be implicated in a different crime during the lawful conduct of the search; that's not weird.)

The scary thing here is that FISA is also used to animate dragnet searches, which are not targeted. It's scary to think that (for instance) phone records seized under the aegis of FISA could be used to start metadata-based criminal prosecutions for things unrelated to terrorism or espionage.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#48

Post by tptacek »

webjprgm wrote: post #45
darawk wrote: post #44

To be honest, nothing about this seems particularly bad. It seems like circumstantially there was some evidence that he may have been a spy, the government executed a FISA warrant on the basis of that belief, and then found evidence of child porn. I'm not generally a fan of secret warrants or broad search and seizure powers, but this really doesn't strike me as a particularly bad case. This seems, by and large, like…

The article has one sentence about the videos being on a beach house computer that someone else could have used. So just from this article it is unclear exactly how damming that evidence is, but it is possible it was not his fault that the illegal videos were on his computers. So first suspicion and second being charged for something he didn't do but could not get out of because he didn't have access to all the legal…

That's true, but contested evidence has nothing to do with FISA. The defendant could just as easily have been searched because a houseguest saw the CP on a computer and tipped the police, and the same debate would have occurred.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#49

Post by webjprgm »

X86BSD wrote: post #18
ekianjo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like, it has become like that. Because of complete disregard/disrespect for the US constitution. The constitution had numerous safeguards to restrict abuse of power, but the Federal Government is completely sitting on it.

"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain — that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist." -Lysander Spooner

Democracy is a form of government that can destroy itself. The French voted to put in an emperor their first time around. So we may have a good constitution but if the people vote to make bad laws that break it, and permit those laws to function, then it is the people's fault, not the founder's fault.

Re: How a federal spy case turned into a child pornography prosecution

#50

Post by kstenerud »

darawk wrote: post #44

To be honest, nothing about this seems particularly bad. It seems like circumstantially there was some evidence that he may have been a spy, the government executed a FISA warrant on the basis of that belief, and then found evidence of child porn. I'm not generally a fan of secret warrants or broad search and seizure powers, but this really doesn't strike me as a particularly bad case. This seems, by and large, like…

Until you get to the money shot:

"During his initial appearance in a federal courthouse in Santa Ana, Calif., the prosecutors indicated a willingness to reduce or drop the child pornography charges if he would tell them about the C-17, said Sara Naheedy, Gartenlaub’s attorney at the time."

No evidence of downloading the porn. No evidence of viewing the porn. The only way, according to their own experts, is if someone directly copied them on.

In other words, "Hey, look what nasty stuff we just happened to find on your computer. Be a nice fella and tell us what we want to know, and we'll make this go away."

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