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My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

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Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#341

Post by smitherfield »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #207
RodericDay wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is pretty ridiculous. Lawyers, Bankers, and Doctors get to play in intellectual sandboxes, and they get paid really handsomely for it, even if they are completely anti-social people. The reason we get paid less is that we don't have any of their safeguards: - Lawyers aim to become partner. It's very socialist-y this way. The goal working in a firm is to become an owner of the firm and share in its successes. - D…

Both lawyers and doctors have powerful associations that control and regulate the labor supply via a certification process. Technology doesn't have this. In fact, technology has the opposite: a H1B program that brings in more and more labor supply to keep wages low.

You could go further regarding lawyers: they're a government jobs program. On balance a beneficial one, but a government jobs program nonetheless. If there were no government there would still be doctors and programmers (albeit probably fewer), but there wouldn't be any lawyers.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#342

Post by naasking »

dccoolgai wrote: post #337
naasking wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would stop working if you did it NOW. That's irrelevant to the point that that's how JS should have worked from the beginning. Also, they can add these semantics to JS now too with a new type of strict mode without breaking anything. As for how painful it would be, your claim is a total fabrication. Other dynamically typed languages are a pleasure to program in without implicit coercions everywhere. JS is widely c…

|JS is widely considered a pain. I find that is widely enjoyed by the "silent majority" and decried as a pain by a very vocal subset of developers. It's a little surprising that 1 + '1' is '11', until you spend a little time and learn the rules instead of fighting them - then you start doing your work in a way that uses that to save time. It's not great for everyone, but I like it - and I know a lot of other good dev…

> It's a little surprising that 1 + '1' is '11', until you spend a little time and learn the rules instead of fighting them - then you start doing your work in a way that uses that to save time.

You are omcpletely underestimating the complexity of JS's implicit coercions. If you haven't already seen it, watch the Wat talk [1].

Finally, the fact that you need the console to even understand the meaning of a code fragment is a perfect example of language failure.

[1] https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#343

Post by c17r »

petewailes wrote: post #67
Zelmor wrote: post #24

He would have been unhappy with the other choice as well, because then it is the programming side he would be missing out on. I would advise everyone to read The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173536 You chose one option out of many, and the others may no longer be a possibility. However, the writer's unhappiness does not spawn from his inability to be successful at what he does,…

At the risk of being "that guy", this actually misses the point of the poem. Quoting: "Though as for that the passing there/Had worn them really about the same/And both that morning equally lay" The poem states that the two roads are basically the same. Further points of interest... "I shall be telling this with a sigh/Somewhere ages and ages hence:/Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—/I took the one less traveled by…

This is one of my favorite things about Frost and his poems. The same thing happens with "Mending Wall" where people only remember "Good fences make good neighbors".

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#344

Post by ryandrake »

Wow, this was a tough read because it hits very close to home. I'm in the same boat as the author financially and career-satisfaction-wise. I truly empathize with the author, and I think people here are being too critical of him. It is difficult to go through life full of regret of your career choices, full of bitterness of the bad luck you encountered, and having the good fortune of others rubbed in your face every day. Commuting two hours past nice neighborhoods knowing that the only thing that separates you from them is that they rolled the dice and picked Netscape for a career back in the 90s and you rolled the dice and picked LayoffTech, and then IncompetentManagmentSoft.

Look on the positive side though. It could be worse. You could have decided to be a factory worker or a cab driver or someone else whose livelihoods are being deliberately and systematically hollowed out. People should be grateful to be in tech no matter how frustrating the lottery-like nature of your career is.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#345

Post by nocman »

aantix wrote: post #235
Zelmor wrote: post #24

He would have been unhappy with the other choice as well, because then it is the programming side he would be missing out on. I would advise everyone to read The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost. http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poem/173536 You chose one option out of many, and the others may no longer be a possibility. However, the writer's unhappiness does not spawn from his inability to be successful at what he does,…

>My sister started as a programmer 30 years ago but jumped into management [...] My sister has 10X the assets I have. It's so hilarious that he calls himself a "programmer". With 30+ years of experience, you're a software engineer, an architect, and best of all, a consultant. Then you charge 5x the normal rate of a salaried engineer, work normal hours, and start accumulating real assets. He needed to put down the tec…

Gag me with an entire place setting.

Might as well add "Rock Star" to the list of meaningless drivel.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with describing yourself as a "programmer" when that is indeed what you've been doing for the last 30 years.

The world needs less people spewing streams of hype to describe their own self importance, not more.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#346

Post by madengr »

buserror wrote: post #84
pjmlp wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here, but it is a big fight to convince the others why you want to stay that way. Right now I get the feeling that long term, going consulting might be the only option left as regular companies tend to only keep juniors coding. > You might be dead tomorrow; you might as well enjoy today. Just for this remark I wish I could have upvoted you more than once. This is something that those that live for the job, witho…

Likewise here. I'm 47, been programming since I'm 12. I'm very good at it. I also know I'd be a bad manager, unless I work with /very/ good people. And yes, Ican relate to the article; I've seen (I still see) junior managers who can barely tie their shoes make more money than excellent engineers with 25y experience, but that's the way the world is... Basically 'engineer'/'programmer' is a calling for some; it is for…

"I've seen (I still see) junior managers who can barely tie their shoes make more money than excellent engineers with 25y experience, but that's the way the world is.."

Screw that. I'd never work for a place like that.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#347

Post by aantix »

kamaal wrote: post #326
aantix wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My sister started as a programmer 30 years ago but jumped into management [...] My sister has 10X the assets I have. It's so hilarious that he calls himself a "programmer". With 30+ years of experience, you're a software engineer, an architect, and best of all, a consultant. Then you charge 5x the normal rate of a salaried engineer, work normal hours, and start accumulating real assets. He needed to put down the tec…

>>Then you charge 5x the normal rate of a salaried engineer, work normal hours, and start accumulating real assets. This is dream which happens only when you are asleep. In real life an older person is less energetic, less enthusiastic, can't do weekends, has health issues, has responsibilities, has family commitments etc etc. Young people work insane hours, they do that for cheap, they show up on weekends and are mo…

>This is dream which happens only when you are asleep. In real >life an older person is less energetic, less enthusiastic, >can't do weekends, has health issues, has responsibilities, >has family commitments etc etc.

>Young people work insane hours, they do that for cheap, they >show up on weekends and are more flexible in general.

Your assumption that income is directly related to your output is wrong. Making better, more qualified decisions is one way to differentiate yourself as you get older. Another is to quantify your output; maybe you do less programming but the pieces you do write can provide the company with a million+ lift in revenue?

Or you position yourself as writing a cleaner implementation, without having to rewrite 3 or 4 times to get it correct (ehem, those "energetic" youngins).

Company's pay for experience all of the time; and when it can be tied directly to increases in profits/revenues, you're way ahead of the game (especially ahead of any Jr. programmer that just blindly pumps out code).

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#348

Post by cookiecaper »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #291
exelius wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I just have to say this: So typically american. The attitude presented in the article is indeed typically American -- but not for the reason I think you intended. The quintessential American quality is the belief that every person has the right to control their own destiny. Fuck, it's right there in the first sentence of the first document declaring this country's independence. Americans are often seen as greedy re…

Like you, I don't think the author of the blog post wanted money or power for their own sake. Relevant to your final paragraph: People Want Power Because They Want Autonomy [1]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11340137

Yes. In post-industrial society, we seem to have lost the true sense of independence. Almost all of us now depend on the good graces of an employer to be able to pay for our needs. That is not independence, it is fiefdom. Meanwhile, true independence is derided as families who provide for their own and are able to pass an inheritance on that grants their children and their grandchildren a degree of autonomy are mocked, which honestly can only really be attributed to jealousy.

I hope that I am able to pass a sizable estate to my children and grandchildren, so that they will not be dependent on banks, universities, and employers that will charge them outrageous fees in time and money just so that they may have a hope at a normal middle-class lifestyle. True independence for ourselves and our posterity should be the goal for all of us. For most of human history, it has been; these days, we are confused and pretend that being enslaved to usurers is the ideal.

Re: My Biggest Regret as a Programmer

#350

Post by carc »

okyup wrote: post #140

I agree that programming is a dead end job. It's popular and relatively easy. It doesn't require any special skills. Anyone with an average IQ can learn it. There's low cost and barrier of entry to getting started. It's fun and addicting when you're a kid. Then you get trapped and it becomes monotonous. There's only so good you can get at programming. Beyond that, most of your time is spent on debugging trivial issue…

You should try something new. Try a startup or perhaps just something smaller where you have to wear a lot of hats and be included in decision making and such. I can't relate to your experience at all
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