Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner • Hacker News Board

Re: Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner

#211

Post by PhasmaFelis » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 10:44 PM UTC

eli wrote: post #181

ams6110 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you enjoy them enough to pay for them?

Sure, sometimes. But it's not easy or possible to pay directly. Paywalls are very tricky to get right and IMHO make the whole site less valuable -- just look at how many complaints there are on HN when someone posts a WSJ.com link. And frankly, I'd rather look at contextually relevant ads than pay money for most sites.

> Sure, sometimes. But it's not easy or possible to pay directly.

Patreon seems to be having a positive effect here, at least with some sites. Webcomics, personal blogs, and other small sites can really thrive on donations alone, and it's heartening that systems are finally arriving to facilitate that specific business model.

Re: Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner

#212

Post by spacehome » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 11:22 AM UTC

eli wrote: post #156

spacehome wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, I'm ready for websites who can't find a viable monetization strategy to just go bankrupt already and stop blaming me for their shitty business plan.

You won't miss them? Quite a few of the sites I enjoy are struggling to remain ad supported and I would be sad if they can't find a way to make it work.

I don't think so, but to be honest I'm not 100% sure because I've been using an adblocker and noscript so long and so consistently that I haven't the slightest idea what (if any) ads show up on my favorite sites.

I do know that I've been quite happy to stop visiting any site that refuses to show content to browsers that adblock. Such sites are almost always low value, and their refusal to serve webpages is a good reminder that the content isn't really a good use of my time, anyways.

If more websites I value more highly start doing this, I'll probably just end up buying subscriptions to turn off ads.

Re: Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner

#213

Post by gregmac » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 8:40 PM UTC

tn13 wrote: post #184

nulbyte wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you hit the nail on the head: greed. This was my tipping point. When sites got so greedy that they stopped caring if anyone read their content, I stopped caring if they got paid for obtrusive ads. Even Google has designed some horrendous ads, especially the Nexus ad that grabs swipes on mobile, keeping you from scrolling past it. If the ads stuck to the meatverse-equivalent style of static but attractive, I…

I don't understand the "greed" part. I worked for a publisher which eventually had to put 8 ad units per page and still could not break even and went out of business soon. I don't think trying to pay salaries of employees is greed and if it is then all of us are greedy. But your solution is right and that is why native ads like Taboola, Outbrain and Revcontent are winning. As times goes by having ads that are not dis…

> native ads like Taboola, Outbrain and Revcontent are winning

Ah yes, Taboola, that was it. About a year ago, Taboola was specifically what caused me to install ad block.

I generally didn't find ads too horrible. My browsing habits just never sent me to sites that had really obnoxious ads, and in certain cases, I specifically would avoid sites like Sourceforge, Softpedia or Download.com, because of their fake download link ads. For the most part, I tolerated (and largely ignored) the existence of ads. I've actually even legitimately clicked on ads before (fewer than 10 in my life, and only for something work-related), though I'm not sure it's ever caused a purchase.

Then these stupid "You may also like" things started appearing everywhere, very similar in style to actual real "related articles on this site" content. That's so misleadingly close to the fake download button ads that it was really getting on my nerves. Then the content quickly got obnoxious, with celebrity gossip, and the one that totally put me over the edge was some gross picture of some type of medical problem which I was seeing multiple times a day.

Honestly I even initially started out with just the intent of blocking Taboola only, but they do things to presumably make it harder to block, and so it was easier just to leave on the default blocklists (which had already done the work to block Taboola everywhere) and everything else was just a casualty of that working.

So are "native ads" like Taboola the answer? I sure hope not, because I am willing to spend a lot of energy to never see that nonsense again.

Re: Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner

#214

Post by norea-armozel » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:21 PM UTC

team_doom wrote: post #20

karterk wrote: post #5

For a very long time, I did not want to use ad blockers. I have used ads in the past to monetize some of my own projects, and I really did not want to stab the creators of quality content. However, last week I finally reversed my decision and started using ad blockers. Why? Frankly, many sites are just greedy. Banners were ugly enough (and I tolerated them) but many sites these days show ads that cover the content, a…

I think this is the wrong way to approach this. You're essentially pirating content now. If you don't like the ads, stop using the site. It's that simple. To take it a step farther, send an email to customer service explaining WHY you're no longer using the site. This sends a much stronger message to them about what makes you unhappy with the service they provide.

If you don't put up a login for your content on the site then it's free for anyone to read with or without Ads.

Re: Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner

#215

Post by norea-armozel » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 9:30 PM UTC

team_doom wrote: post #120

yoo1I wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's the difference: you seem to be getting something out of the ads. For me it's 100% irrelevant. If I need something I will go look for it. If what I need is so special that it can't be found by an internet search, rest assured no-one would make an ad for it. I am not sure why you use the term "cognitive dissonance" for referring to a situation where I consume without paying for something, and I don't feel entit…

It's pretty simple. The great content is created because the site can afford to pay for it. The "something else" I'm forcing you to look at is keeping the servers on. They HAVE figured out how to make it profitable, and you've figured out how to avoid paying for it. Just because you feel that the moral obligation is manufactured doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Paywalls are not the answer in all cases, and I do think t…

A site is a site is a site. Whether it serves incomprehensible text or comprehensible 'content'. When you decided as a site owner to open up your entire content to the world for all to consume as is without authentication or some sort of DRM strategy it's available to everyone. And I mean everyone. You can freely close your site off if you want but stop lying to yourself that you're entitled to make your site profitable. It's like saying you're entitled to ROI if you make a product regardless of how people view it (as useless or bad). You're not entitled to profitability. You're only entitled to the chance to become profitable and no more. Please etch that idea into your forehead because from my POV you're the one acting as if you're entitled to free money.

Re: Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner

#216

Post by bitwize » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 5:45 AM UTC

chopin wrote: post #161

bitwize wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Your contract with the network when you get the show is you're going to watch the spots. Otherwise you couldn't get the show on an ad-supported basis. Any time you skip a commercial or watch the button you're actually stealing programming." --Jamie Kellner, former Warner executive

"To view this content, you are obliged to shoot yourself in the foot." --me Any time you shove me down ransomware you are actively supporting crime.

I'm not saying that what Jamie Kellner said is a good thing, only that he said it -- and it broadly reflects the thinking of many decision makers in the "content industry" -- that when content is made available to the audience with support from advertisers, the audience is obligated to view the ads.

Re: Rise of Ad Blocking Is the Ad Industry's Fault, Says Outgoing FTC Commissioner

#217

Post by jld89 » Thu, Apr 07, 2016, 9:27 AM UTC

wiz21c wrote: post #12

I use adblocker. Now, the news sites I like say "sorry pal, adblocker means no news". I'm perfectly fine with that. It's just arms race. My freedom to remove the ads, their to put them. Everybody's free and I love it. Now I'll have to pay and that's fine : good content comes from work and work deserve money. But all of a sudden, as I'll pay, I'll become much more demanding. And so competition can work again...

uBlock and no-script are good against paywalls