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WhatsApp's Signal Protocol integration is now complete

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Re: WhatsApp's Signal Protocol integration is now complete

#11
Whatsapp's own post:

https://blog.whatsapp.com/10000618/End-to-end-encryption

I'm grateful Whatsapp itself finally made a public statement about this as well, but I would hope they would go a step further and integrate this new change into its Privacy Policy as well.

Then they would be at least somewhat legally committed to using end-to-end encryption for the foreseeable future in which they'll keep using e2e encryption. I'd have a little more trust in them that they aren't just going to drop the E2E encryption for various individuals with just a phone call from government officials.

Re: WhatsApp's Signal Protocol integration is now complete

#13

I am not seeing the information about encryption they mention in any of my chat details on the iOS client. Is this part Android only or did simply non of my contacts upgrade yet? I have version 2.16.1 edit: After a while it now shows up with certain contacts for me

I got a message in my stream right after I sent a message saying 'the messages in this conversation are now protected by end to end encryption' clicking on it takes you to this page https://www.whatsapp.com/security/?l=en - I'm using 2.16.1

Re: WhatsApp's Signal Protocol integration is now complete

#14
This is really excellent. A few thoughts:

1) They seem to have replaced TLS/SSL between client and server with "Noise Pipes". Based on a couple of minutes Googling this seems to be a brand new one-man protocol from Trevor Perrin (the same guy who did Axoltl on which Signal is based). At least, I'd never heard of it. I wonder if this is the first inkling of a post-TLS future?

http://noiseprotocol.org/noise.html

2) It's a shame to see key words be killed off by internationalisation concerns. 12 words seems so much more friendly, at least to English speakers, than a 50 digit number. In practice I doubt any non-trivial numbers of people will ever compare codes by reading out such a number. I hope further research here can develop better replacements for encoding short binary strings in i18n friendly ways (perhaps with icons instead of specific words? if you don't speak a common language with your chat partner then the app is useless anyway).

3) What's the next step? My feeling is that the next step is securing the build and distribution pipeline. WhatsApp could partner with security firms around the world, like Kaspersky Lab in Moscow, perhaps one in Germany and another in Iran, to make it harder for the software to be forcibly backdoored by a single decision of a single government representative. This would require splitting the RSA signing keys used by the app stores. I have some code in my inbox that claims it can do this (it's written by some academics and I obtained it after a bit of a runaround) but I never found the time to play with it.

Of course, getting a bunch of security firms to sign off on every update, no matter how trivial that update is, might prove politically difficult inside Facebook. If mobile platforms supported in-app sandboxing better then the app could slowly be refactored to be more like Chrome, where the base layer doesn't trust the upper layers. Those upper layers wouldn't have access to key material and could then be updated more freely than the higher privileged components.

Re: WhatsApp's Signal Protocol integration is now complete

#15

This is really excellent. A few thoughts: 1) They seem to have replaced TLS/SSL between client and server with "Noise Pipes". Based on a couple of minutes Googling this seems to be a brand new one-man protocol from Trevor Perrin (the same guy who did Axoltl on which Signal is based). At least, I'd never heard of it. I wonder if this is the first inkling of a post-TLS future? http://noiseprotocol.org/noise.html 2) It'…

> 2) It's a shame to see key words be killed off by internationalisation concerns. 12 words seems so much more friendly, at least to English speakers, than a 50 digit number. In practice I doubt any non-trivial numbers of people will ever compare codes by reading out such a number. I hope further research here can develop better replacements for encoding short binary strings in i18n friendly ways (perhaps with icons instead of specific words? if you don't speak a common language with your chat partner then the app is useless anyway).

There's a QR code representation as well that can be scanned to verify.

Re: WhatsApp's Signal Protocol integration is now complete

#16

Does this mean that WhatsApp can talk to Signal Private Messenger app?

On a protocol level, probably yes. On a practical level, probably hell no. Connecting to one another must be very nontrivial, given how different the actual wire protocols are.

Re: WhatsApp's Signal Protocol integration is now complete

#18
I came here apprehensive because you need UI support for this to work, but reading the article I was pleasantly surprised to see that they implemented all the verification and other bits to make this reasonably visibly secure.

Great job from everyone, I'm glad WhatsApp has done this. I look forward to these features on my device.

Re: WhatsApp's Signal Protocol integration is now complete

#19
post #9

WhatsApp have published further details for users[1], as well as a technical whitepaper[2] explaining the implementation. There's also a blog post[3]. [1]: https://www.whatsapp.com/security/ [2]: https://www.whatsapp.com/security/WhatsApp-Security-Whitepap... [3]: https://blog.whatsapp.com/10000618/End-to-end-encryption

That last blog post is clearly written by Jan Koum, as it talks about his past in the Soviet Union. But his name doesn't appear anywhere on the blog post and if you didn't know that odd bit of trivia, it'd be completely confusing - who the heck is talking? Some random employee?

They need to add the name and job title of the blog posts author to the bottom.

Re: WhatsApp's Signal Protocol integration is now complete

#20

This is really excellent. A few thoughts: 1) They seem to have replaced TLS/SSL between client and server with "Noise Pipes". Based on a couple of minutes Googling this seems to be a brand new one-man protocol from Trevor Perrin (the same guy who did Axoltl on which Signal is based). At least, I'd never heard of it. I wonder if this is the first inkling of a post-TLS future? http://noiseprotocol.org/noise.html 2) It'…

> They seem to have replaced TLS/SSL between client and server with "Noise Pipes".

WhatsApp was already using a custom protocol instead of TLS. We worked with them to transition over to Noise Pipes, which has some advantages over what they were doing before. Also, we've renamed Axolotl to Signal Protocol: https://whispersystems.org/blog/signal-inside-and-out/

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