Will minimum wage hikes lead to a huge boost in automation? Only if we're lucky • Hacker News Board

Re: Will minimum wage hikes lead to a huge boost in automation? Only if we're lucky

#371

Post by Natsu » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 3:41 AM UTC

true_religion wrote: post #368

Natsu wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you live? That's simply not true here, where any business which has to collect sales tax (i.e. nearly everyone) needs a "Transaction Privilege Tax" license.

In the United States, there are no national or state level service taxes, so that's a whole branch of businesses that do not have to register for specific taxation purposes. If the US were a VAT-style country, everyone would have to register for taxation purposes. Regardless, at least in the USA, sales tax registration is not the same thing as a licence to operate. You can start a business dealing in tangible goods,…

If I understand you correctly, while it's not a license, you must have one to do business and you can be punished for not having one.

So I have to ask exactly how many businesses can you give me the names & addresses of which legally operate in the USA without any sort of government paperwork which they could punish you for operating without?

Re: Will minimum wage hikes lead to a huge boost in automation? Only if we're lucky

#372

Post by clarkmoody » Tue, Apr 05, 2016, 1:34 PM UTC

nomat wrote: post #352

mangeletti wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if we stop trying to control everything and let people make their own choices. In nature, if an animal doesn't hunt for food, it dies. We should take care of those who can't "hunt" because they're handicapped, but we can't afford to because we spend all of that energy on handing things to the ones who don't want to "hunt". Stop trying to control nature.

I can't tell if this is a serious comment or a facetious one. Do you know me from somewhere else? Very strange. If serious, I believe that it would be categorized under the "appeal to nature" group of fallacies. Secondly, who is "we" in this situation? People are making their own choices. We live in a representative democracy and people vote to decide things. Not everybody gets their way all the time. And then, is it…

I agree with mangeletti's first sentence completely, but I have no comment on his appeal to nature.

Democracy is one of the most insidious forms of government, since it gives the people the illusion of choice and the "we made this decision together" mindset. The problem is that a bare majority of voters (not population), can force its will upon all others in society, bringing down the hammer of government arbitrarily on any group it chooses.

Look how politicians who win a decisive presidential race in the electoral college go into office with a self-proclaimed "mandate from the people" to change things. Now his every action cannot be scrutinized because "we" chose this course. Ridiculous.

And don't get me started on wars waged by democracies...

Re: Will minimum wage hikes lead to a huge boost in automation? Only if we're lucky

#373

Post by true_religion » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 1:03 AM UTC

Natsu wrote: post #371

true_religion wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the United States, there are no national or state level service taxes, so that's a whole branch of businesses that do not have to register for specific taxation purposes. If the US were a VAT-style country, everyone would have to register for taxation purposes. Regardless, at least in the USA, sales tax registration is not the same thing as a licence to operate. You can start a business dealing in tangible goods,…

If I understand you correctly, while it's not a license, you must have one to do business and you can be punished for not having one. So I have to ask exactly how many businesses can you give me the names & addresses of which legally operate in the USA without any sort of government paperwork which they could punish you for operating without?

My understanding is that we were talking about removing the idea of a business as seperate legal entity, not stopping capitalism in general and preventing people from exchanging money for goods or services.

As such, the only 'business' licence of interest is one which would prevent an individual, real, breathing human being from selling goods, or providing services to the general public.

The requirement that you must personally fill out a sales tax form is not that. This is really just on par with the law that says 'if you make an income, you must fill out your income tax forms'. The only penalty for ignoring it is paying additional administrative costs (and perhaps a small punitive fine) because you made everything harder for everyone.

Edit: And importantly, no one can stop you from filling the form so it can't be called a barrier to entry.

Re: Will minimum wage hikes lead to a huge boost in automation? Only if we're lucky

#374

Post by tmptmp » Wed, Apr 06, 2016, 8:34 AM UTC

knughit wrote: post #315

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's rich, considering the number of 'marxist' rebel groups murdering nuns and social leaders and bombing schools.

How does that compare to a capitalist killing a 1000people in one day by collapsing a building on them? (Rana Plaza)

How does that compare to a Marxist/communist like Mao/Stalin killing and maiming hundreds of thousands just because they didn't exactly speak the way he approved?

Re: Will minimum wage hikes lead to a huge boost in automation? Only if we're lucky

#375

Post by fche » Sun, Apr 10, 2016, 3:59 PM UTC

brainfire wrote: post #77

chillwaves wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think people are not entitled to employment? Are they entitled to survive? Are you going to be the one to break the bad news? Let's find out what happens when you tell large segments of the population they have no right to a livelihood. I am going to wager the cost to the wealthy will be much higher than an increase in the minimum wage.

I assume everyone who argues that there's no right to employment is also arguing in favor of a guaranteed income - decoupling survival from employment.

That would be an erroneous assumption.

Re: Will minimum wage hikes lead to a huge boost in automation? Only if we're lucky

#376

Post by fche » Sun, Apr 10, 2016, 4:11 PM UTC

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #72

atemerev wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slavery is forced labor. I don't see anything forced here. Salaries for unskilled labor are driven down by lack of demand for unskilled labor, and nothing can be done about that. What can be done is adjusting employees' skills to the areas where demand is still high. Coding bootcamps are one obvious possibility, but there are others. Everyone can learn new things. You, personally, can help these people, too. Hire an…

If you have to accept a pitiful wage in order to barely subsist, that is effectively forced labor. In practice, the only alternative is to starve. Which is why a labor market without basic income or some other kind of safety net is not a free market at all. Not everyone can learn everything, but even if that were possible, if everyone in the world knew e.g. how to code decently, coding would be a minimum-wage job too…

"a labor market without basic income or some other kind of safety net is not a free market at all"

No, you're just redefining "freedom". It does not mean "freedom from consequence from choices". It means "lack of compulsion to make particular choices".