I do wish that there was an option to treat threads as the primary unit, like gmail and sup (http://supmua.org). The threading support isn't bad, but expanding and collapsing threads in the index view only gets you so far. Years ago I took a look at the code base thinking I might give it a try, but quickly realized that kind of change was a lot of work and way over my head.
Mutt 1.6
81–90 of 191 posts
Re: Mutt 1.6
#82I use it daily. It's a lovely email client. Close to the Unix ideal of doing one thing, and doing it well. Integration with other utilities (notmuch, isync) for indexing and sync'ing is very easy, thanks to close adherence to Unix principles, and gets you a very neat setup. Nothing to envy from Gmail.
> Close to the Unix ideal of doing one thing, and doing it well. In my opinion this concept does not work for most non-cli programs. How do you actually define this "one thing"? Is "reading an email" one thing? And "writing an email" another thing? What about "spellchecking the email"? What about "managing all my email contacts"? What about "back up my emails"? What about "sign email with GPG"? Do all of these things…
That's essentially what Mutt does. But you could also use other programs to parse and read each email file if you wish. "Fetching email" can also be a different thing. I use offlineimap for that purpose and store my messages in the Maildir format.
> And "writing an email" another thing?
Yes. Even "sending an email" is another thing. The program that edits my emails (vim) is not the same program which sends them (msmtp).
> What about "spellchecking the email"?
I don't do this (with a program), but I assume you could just do it within Vim.
> What about "managing all my email contacts"?
I use OS X Contacts for that, so there's a command-line tool that allows me to search for and then insert those contacts in Mutt.
> What about "back up my emails"?
Again, another program! I keep my Maildir synchronized to my home server and all my other computers using BitTorrent Sync. Changes are backed up with Arq to Amazon Glacier every day.
> What about "sign email with GPG"?
Definitely its own program, although Mutt includes support for it you still need GPG installed and everything set up for that stuff in order to sign your emails. This is true for every other email client isn't it? I know I have to instal GPGMail to get the same functionality on Apple Mail.
So you see, all of these tools are really separate processes in and of themselves. The benefit to all of this is when newer and better technology comes around, you don't have to wait for your software vendor to support it. Instead, you just use a different program that follows the same standards, which have been around for decades. Some people, probably most, find this to be an unacceptable burden. For that, there are definitely great email clients out there like Nylas N1 and Google Inbox...but if you want total control in the same sense that you get from your shell and your editor, Mutt is the client for you.
Re: Mutt 1.6
#83I use it daily. It's a lovely email client. Close to the Unix ideal of doing one thing, and doing it well. Integration with other utilities (notmuch, isync) for indexing and sync'ing is very easy, thanks to close adherence to Unix principles, and gets you a very neat setup. Nothing to envy from Gmail.
> Close to the Unix ideal of doing one thing, and doing it well. In my opinion this concept does not work for most non-cli programs. How do you actually define this "one thing"? Is "reading an email" one thing? And "writing an email" another thing? What about "spellchecking the email"? What about "managing all my email contacts"? What about "back up my emails"? What about "sign email with GPG"? Do all of these things…
I don't see how CLI programs avoid this. "One thing" is a human idea, subject to interpretation. Should grep and sed be consolidated? Does find do too much? Why do we have both echo and printf?
> Is "reading an email" one thing? And "writing an email" another thing?
Mutt says so. You read and sort emails in Mutt, you write emails in $EDITOR and then you can add attachments and such back in mutt.
> What about "spellchecking the email"?
Well since mutt outsources writing the email, I can't really comment on what mutt does. But if you don't want to do spellchecking within your editor for whatever reason, mutt lets you pipe the contents of anything to an external program, so you could write your email, then select the message from the attachments list and type "|aspell -a" and you'll get a basic spellcheck.
> What about "managing all my email contacts"?
I think that's pretty clearly a seperate program's duty, since contacts are used by other applications as well. Not only does mutt agree with me, so do Google and Apple. Mutt makes it simple to integrate with external contact lists to provide autocomplete for known email addresses.
> What about "back up my emails"?
That should be taken care of by both your email provider and your personal backup solution. I don't see why an email client would care about backups.
> What about "sign email with GPG"?
Well that's a job for GPG isn't it? That again can be accomplished by just piping the message into an external command. If you use it frequently you'd write some config and scripts to automate it. I saddly rarely uses PGP for email so I don't have hands on experience with this, but it looks like mutt has built in support for this kind of automation. A more unix-aligned approach would be to ship an /usr/share/mutt/examples/auto-gpg.muttrc or something like that that users can just source in their config files.
> but there is just now way you could make GIMP follow the unix principle.
No? Represent layers as a bunch of image files in a directory. Have one program check when they change and composite them in realtime. Have another program render the output of that one to the screen. Have a third integrate with the rendering program and manage the creation of selections (represented as a selection mask, so it supports everything from rectangular selection to brush selection). Drawing tools and filters become programs that take an image and a selection and some (interactive) options and output a new image. Then you have a UI program that brings all these programs together.
If this isn't as performant as Gimp, you can optimize it, for example, by replacing pipelines between parts of the standard toolchain with some kind of shared memory IPC or something similar.
It's not that the ideas behind unix don't apply to modern software; people just don't give a fuck.
Re: Mutt 1.6
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
you can have that again: bbm priv. An android phablet with a full hardware keyboard.
Or a Pyra!
Some decent pictures: http://pandoralive.info/?p=5519
Re: Mutt 1.6
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty sure gmail supported POP from day one, and it has supported IMAP since 2007 [1]. The problem is that gmail's mail organizational system is sort of incompatible with POP/IMAP and completely incompatible with a number of clients. That started to change around 2010 when gmail had been so popular for so long that the standards and clients started to accomodate gmail's way of doing things. Desktop MUAs won't sudden…
I think the main thing is that people see no difference between gmail and other web messaging (eg Facebook) anymore. It's a text box on a website.
The person in question is someone who became "computer literate" relatively recently (at least compared to me, I'm 37 and always been tinkering since I was a kid) and has become accustomed to most on-line services while using smartphones and tablets, not a personal computer.
That person is not alone. To be honest, I think most people under 20 and most people living in developing countries went down a similar path (mobile first) and have a similar understanding of messaging platform.
Re: Mutt 1.6
#86Re: Mutt 1.6
#87Can anyone recommend a CalDAV based calendar program that either integrates into or works well along side Mutt? I've tried khal and it works alright, but I recall it being a little wonky with timezones.
PS: some of khal's wonkiness is due to it reporting all errors instead of silently ignoring them most other calendar software does.
Re: Mutt 1.6
#88I am a reluctant Mutt user. I prefer it to webmail but I prefer a good native gui client to either. It is a very flexible solution but is a big investment in configuration and keypress memory for a casual user. It is a relief to see it still being developed. So much seems abandoned these days with the bleed to web and mobile.
Re: Mutt 1.6
#89Does anyone use Mutt with SMIME and GPG? Do you like it? I need a mailer with SMIME support for work. I am currently using thunderbird and would love an alternative.
Re: Mutt 1.6
#90I use it daily. It's a lovely email client. Close to the Unix ideal of doing one thing, and doing it well. Integration with other utilities (notmuch, isync) for indexing and sync'ing is very easy, thanks to close adherence to Unix principles, and gets you a very neat setup. Nothing to envy from Gmail.
> Close to the Unix ideal of doing one thing, and doing it well. In my opinion this concept does not work for most non-cli programs. How do you actually define this "one thing"? Is "reading an email" one thing? And "writing an email" another thing? What about "spellchecking the email"? What about "managing all my email contacts"? What about "back up my emails"? What about "sign email with GPG"? Do all of these things…