Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ubuntu on Windows

blog.dustinkirkland.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

921–930 of 933 posts

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#921

Post by JdeBP »

barrkel wrote: post #112
whatever_dude wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read comments where people wrote that NT always had some kind of POSIX subsystem, and it has probably just now been completed and expanded. Can't find any substantial writings on this, but it seems likely.

Not only did NT have a POSIX subsystem, but once upon a time I used it (when it was packaged as SFU, Services for Unix). It wasn't a pleasant experience. This will have been quite a bit more work than just a POSIX layer, IMO; POSIX defines a bunch of low-level functions that lie just under the C runtime library, but Linux defines a bunch more that expect a certain view of the world - things like clone(2), which lets…

> It wasn't a pleasant experience.

In my experience the differing perception of pleasure, certainly with the Interix-derived Windows NT POSIX subsystem rather than the original one, is usually a result of the toolset being BSD rather than GNU. I don't have much trouble with the BSD toolset, myself, especially when switching between Windows and an actual BSD. (-:

In addition to the fact that a number of the "Does this new subsystem ...?" questions are answerable as "No; but the old POSIX subsystem did." (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11416392) the POSIX subsystem has some stuff that we're simply not going to get with a Linux subsystem that has vanilla Linux binaries including libraries right down to the system call level. There are things that only come by adjusting libraries and binaries, because they are above the raw system call level. The POSIX subsystem integrates the user account database access library routines with the Windows SAM, for example. So "ls -l" shows the actual Windows usernames. The POSIX subsystem also comes with a "service" command that understands and can work with the SCM, for another example.

I'd like to see the POSIX subsystem reintroduced. It's a major reason not to use Windows 10.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#922

Post by JdeBP »

alwaysdownvoted wrote: post #587
barrkel wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only did NT have a POSIX subsystem, but once upon a time I used it (when it was packaged as SFU, Services for Unix). It wasn't a pleasant experience. This will have been quite a bit more work than just a POSIX layer, IMO; POSIX defines a bunch of low-level functions that lie just under the C runtime library, but Linux defines a bunch more that expect a certain view of the world - things like clone(2), which lets…

I still use SUA every day when I'm forced to use Windows. (I also run Linux binaries on BSD.) SUA is based on an old version of BSD, not GNU. tcsh, csh and sh. The compiler works. There is an old version of lex. For some of the userland, Windows binaries are provided, such as vi. It's better than nothing. Why did MS remove SUA from Windows 10? What harm would it do to remain an optional add-in as it was in Windows 7?…

> The compiler works.

... but is too outdated to be capable of bootstrapping clang. There's very probably a long chain of bootstraps that would achieve it, but there's not a direct route.

> Will users be able to run their own Linux binaries on Windows?

The answer to that is easily determined from the demo video that Microsoft published. In it, Russ Alexander compiles a program with (Ubuntu binary) GCC and and runs it.

Its implicit int in the declaration of main() was jarring. (-:

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#923

Post by timpattinson »

wmccullough wrote: post #802
hydromet wrote: post #767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft during their monopolic era was much more beyond that, they were going for all. Yes, absolutely. Bill Gates was not a "nice" man. These days many people fawn over him "oh he's so lovey dovey, he's going to save the world with all his money as a philanthropist". LOL -- how many have actually sat at the same table (behind closed doors) with Billy boy pounding the table telling everyone attending (ISPs, major…

Explain to me how it could be a Trojan horse when it's their own OS that they are modifying? They aren't exactly going in and sabotaging the Linux kernel project here... There's also a logical fallacy that because Nadella worked for MS for the past twenty five years, he's as power hungry as Gates. This reeks of the type of elitist nonsense the keeps people from wanting to adopt Linux. EDIT: Removed insult, came with…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#924

Post by cturner »

mavhc wrote: post #850
cturner wrote: post #803

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that was a whac-a-mole, probably for getting boxes checked for whatever it is that audit departments did before sarbanes oxley. That they've gone with linux here shows that their focus is mainstream developers. Consider - it their main focus here had been EEE then BSD would have been a far better starting point. The GPL is far more restrictive than the BSD license. The one major area where linux wins over BSD is…

http://brianreiter.org/2010/08/24/the-sad-history-of-the-mic...

Hey, I waved away the existing unix solution, and your link corrects me. Your link shows it has a history far richer than I said: real people put real engineering work into it, often through a fog of unappreciative politics, and now their neglected thing is on its way to being killed. I've been there - those poor bastards. At least a couple of people downvoted you. But it was a worthwhile correction. Thanks.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#925

Post by doktrin »

khattam wrote: post #863
doktrin wrote: post #837

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> typical Microsoft strategy > utilized a lot 25 years ago. I don't know about you guys, but I'm not gonna hold onto that grudge forever without good reason. The world's changed a lot since gif's of Calvin pissing on bill gates were all the rage.

It's not that they tried to use it once... they have tried to use it multiple times over the years.

Most recently, when?

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#926

Post by kitsirota »

shanselman wrote: post #619
Stratoscope wrote: post #612

So how does one actually install this thing? I set up the brand new Windows 10 Pro Insider Preview 14295 from MSDN. Hanselman's blog post says: > After turning on Developer Mode in Windows Settings and adding the Feature, run you bash and are prompted to get Ubuntu on Windows from Canonical via the Windows Store... OK, I turned on Developer Mode. Now what? What does "[add] the Feature" mean? http://www.hanselman.com/…

Builds coming soon first via the Windows Insider Program. Sign up and you'll get it all over Windows Update soon.

The wait is literally killing me!

Scott, is there any chance you could drop a hint how soon is "soon"? Will this drop on a Wednesday with other updates or will it be a special release?

Thank you!

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#927

Post by kitsirota »

Stratoscope wrote: post #656
shanselman wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Builds coming soon first via the Windows Insider Program. Sign up and you'll get it all over Windows Update soon.

Thanks Scott! I've got my Insider builds turned on with the Fast level on this test machine, so will hang tight and wait for updates. Well, actually my "test machine" is a Windows 10 14295 VM running in Parallels. So if this ends up working (no reason it shouldn't) I will be running Ubuntu on Windows on OSX! :-)

Haha I am running Windows 10 on a macbook pro (bootcamp). So in my case it would be ubuntu on windows on a macbook =P

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#928

Post by abawany »

JdeBP wrote: post #905
abawany wrote: post #176

Apparently I wasn't the first one to think of this: 2016, the year that Linux finally takes off on the desktop. https://twitter.com/search?q=year+linux+desktop

... except that: * Linux is the part that's being replaced, with the Windows NT kernel and this subsystem. * The people promoting this are not aiming it at GUI programs. ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11391961 ) * The desktop seen on the screen will still be Windows Explorer. So it's "Linux on the desktop", except in every particular. (-:

Fair point - it was a "clever" and shallow comment on my part for which I paid.

I am not particularly a Windows fan either and have been using Linux since the early 90s - the Linux desktop has always been quite adequate for my needs so it is personally hard for me to see why it is difficult for people to adopt Linux on the desktop. The only reasons I can see are sub-optimal driver support, some Windows application that keeps them locked (for me it is OneNote and its support for handwriting), or general fear.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#929

Post by AaronFriel »

cabirum wrote: post #16

Are posix permissions supported/emulated? Or are they set to 777 for all Windows drives in /mnt like shared folders in a VM?

Correction: filesystem permissions are not fully emulated, but they aren't disobeyed either. Looks like everything obeys the user's permissions, which is good, but everything under /mnt shows up as 777 root/root.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#930

Post by shanselman »

kitsirota wrote: post #926
shanselman wrote: post #619

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Builds coming soon first via the Windows Insider Program. Sign up and you'll get it all over Windows Update soon.

The wait is literally killing me! Scott, is there any chance you could drop a hint how soon is "soon"? Will this drop on a Wednesday with other updates or will it be a special release? Thank you!

This is in the current Insiders release, NOW.
Post reply on HN