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Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

bbc.com

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Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#291

Post by akhatri_aus »

fweespee_ch wrote: post #222
smegel wrote: post #216

When the first three leaders named are the top 3 enemies/adversaries of the US/Britain - Putin, Xi and Assad - my own little conspiracy canary started chirping. And the Icelandic PM? The one who really annoyed Britain by defaulting on their debts? Makes me wonder who orchestrated the leak.

https://panamapapers.icij.org/20160403-panama-papers-global-... > In 2013, U.K. leader David Cameron urged his country’s overseas territories — including the British Virgin Islands — to work with him to “get our own houses in order” and join the fight against tax evasion and offshore secrecy. > He could have looked no further than his late father to see how challenging that would be. > Ian Cameron, a stockbroker and…

The USG have wanted tax reform for ages now. There's also no American mentioned (yet) which is very conspiracy-ey.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#293

Post by fnordfnordfnord »

smsm42 wrote: post #285
IkmoIkmo wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd replace wrongdoing with illegal. If you ask me, if you're a billionaire and you're not willing to pay taxes and spend 0.0001% of your wealth on the expertise to reduce your tax bill by 99%, in legal ways that 99.99% of the rest of the population doesn't engage in, then by all means that's wrongdoing to me and I think most would be with me on that. Of course it's not necessarily illegal.

Rest of the population doesn't engage in these ways because it's not worth it for them - they do not pay enough taxes to warrant it. Some people, however, pay lots of taxes - so much that it may make sense for them to spend money and go to great length to somewhat reduce their tax bills. They most probably still pay much more tax than average person - just not as much as they could be paying if they didn't use these…

It's not worth it because the cost of obtaining the expertise to do it is higher than the taxes.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#294

Post by hartpuff »

tootie wrote: post #282
harry8 wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, I'll bite. What do you think Vlad Putin's legit source is for his billions? His paycheck? Sometimes you don't have to know all the details. Somtimes the mere fact of a bank account with billions in it is enough to know, with certainty that a politician has his/her hand in the till and is a corrupt bastard. I pick on Vlad, there's plenty more to choose from. Now the evidence exists to remove doubt from the accusat…

I'm sure Putin's cash is ill-gained but I'm extremely doubtful it will be exposed in these docs. The NY Times has a story that he straight-up murdered a guy on American soil. That probably won't stick either.

> The NY Times has a story that he straight-up murdered a guy on American soil.

This seemed extremely unlikely to me, so I Googled it. If you mean this story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/03/us/mikhail-lesins-strange-...

it doesn't say anything even remotely like Putin straight-up murdered a guy (a scumbag who has spent his life associating with and/or making enemies of other scumbags) on American soil.

In fact it doesn't even straight-up say he was murdered at all, by anyone:

    The police [in the US] continue to treat Mr.
    Lesin’s as a natural death
and:

    Neither the F.B.I. nor the Justice Department
    has taken a role in the investigation [...] 
    suggesting that it was being investigated as 
    an untimely death but not a federal crime.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#295

Post by fweespee_ch »

akhatri_aus wrote: post #291
fweespee_ch wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://panamapapers.icij.org/20160403-panama-papers-global-... > In 2013, U.K. leader David Cameron urged his country’s overseas territories — including the British Virgin Islands — to work with him to “get our own houses in order” and join the fight against tax evasion and offshore secrecy. > He could have looked no further than his late father to see how challenging that would be. > Ian Cameron, a stockbroker and…

The USG have wanted tax reform for ages now. There's also no American mentioned (yet) which is very conspiracy-ey.

They are largely US based and want to verify rather than risk being sued for livel. Give it a month.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#296

Post by laxatives »

r3bl wrote: post #143
wyck wrote: post #21

Panama just passed compliance with FATF (February 2016) and it's a message that their political leader/law firm owner/world's largest money launderer (his name is in the OP's title) is no longer open for business after decades of being the go-to place for hidden $$$. http://www.fatf-gafi.org/countries/#Panama "The FATF recognised that Algeria, Angola and Panama have made significant progress in improving their regime…

> Real leaks don't have fancy websites with responsive vectorized portraits and a full on content /social media structure. Yes they do and you're welcome. Sincerely, somebody who worked on this for way too long and practically hasn't left the office this entire weekend.

The whole presentation was extremely well done. This seriously makes me consider going in to journalism if I ever feel the need for a career change.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#297

Post by pron »

smsm42 wrote: post #285
IkmoIkmo wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd replace wrongdoing with illegal. If you ask me, if you're a billionaire and you're not willing to pay taxes and spend 0.0001% of your wealth on the expertise to reduce your tax bill by 99%, in legal ways that 99.99% of the rest of the population doesn't engage in, then by all means that's wrongdoing to me and I think most would be with me on that. Of course it's not necessarily illegal.

Rest of the population doesn't engage in these ways because it's not worth it for them - they do not pay enough taxes to warrant it. Some people, however, pay lots of taxes - so much that it may make sense for them to spend money and go to great length to somewhat reduce their tax bills. They most probably still pay much more tax than average person - just not as much as they could be paying if they didn't use these…

> it's not worth it for them - they do not pay enough taxes to warrant it

Not only do they pay a larger portion of their fortune, that money makes a much bigger difference to them (us, why do I say them?) in our everyday lives.

> They most probably still pay much more tax than average person

They probably pay much less than what they should. They benefit from from an organized state much more than the average person.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#298

Post by trill1 »

adventured wrote: post #252
grecy wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't tell if you're being serious about American news only reporting things that make America look good I'm being serious. Other countries I've lived in spend a lot of time in their media comparing their own country to other countries that are doing very well, or are doing something better than them, such that they can learn from that and make their own situation or system better. When you only compare America t…

I don't believe the US is hung up on not improving. I think that's blatantly false and I think you're wrong about some of what you're claiming. It's also a fascinating bit of hypocrisy, to say that the US is hung up on being right, and yet you feel free to bash the US while promoting the things others do right (you listed healthcare, education, roads). How does that work again? The US does in fact improve. See: gay m…

> It's also a fascinating bit of hypocrisy, to say that the US is hung up on being right, and yet you feel free to bash the US while promoting the things others do right (you listed healthcare, education, roads). How does that work again?

He's not bashing the US, but rather being realistic about the sorry state of American healthcare, education, and infrastructure. And it's perfectly valid to suggest that both American exceptionalism and a general lack of exposure to the ideas and experiences of foreign citizens, are partially to blame for America's failures domestically and abroad.

> The US does in fact improve. See: gay marriage legalization (something many of those supposed progressive nations you're referring to still lack). Body cams for police (a wide national interest in ending police brutality).

Gay marriage is a great step forward, but there are more pressing issues honestly, primary among them reigning in the military-industrial complex that has been steadily toppling democratically-elected governments for the past 60 years, stealing resources, fighting proxy wars, and selling weapons to one or both sides.

> Ending mass incarceration and the war on drugs (changes that are now supported by the majority of Americans). The ACA / Obamacare.

No way the majority of citizens of support ending the drug war. Legalization or decriminalization of marijuana are only small steps toward ending mass incarceration. How many people currently support heroin being legal, taxed, and available down the street? Not many, but until US society has that revelation, there will still be black market violence, and still be addicts ODing because their heroin is anything from 10% to 90% pure and potentially cut with other harmful substances, and because they hesitate to call an ambulance for fear of exiting the hospital in police custody.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#299

Post by dangerlibrary »

the_watcher wrote: post #271
IkmoIkmo wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd replace wrongdoing with illegal. If you ask me, if you're a billionaire and you're not willing to pay taxes and spend 0.0001% of your wealth on the expertise to reduce your tax bill by 99%, in legal ways that 99.99% of the rest of the population doesn't engage in, then by all means that's wrongdoing to me and I think most would be with me on that. Of course it's not necessarily illegal.

There are still reasons to use shell corporations that are entirely legitimate, and have no moral issues whatsoever.

Since you used the plural: care to name two?

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#300

Post by visarga »

cft wrote: post #290

I like this quote: [1] Fonseca was born 14 on July 1952 in Panama,and studied law and political science at the University of Panama and the London School of Economics. As a young man, "he hoped to save the world". 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramón_Fonseca_Mora

> "he hoped to save the world"

he hoped to save the [money of the richest people in the] world

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