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Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

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Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#281

Post by enraged_camel »

r3bl wrote: post #143
wyck wrote: post #21

Panama just passed compliance with FATF (February 2016) and it's a message that their political leader/law firm owner/world's largest money launderer (his name is in the OP's title) is no longer open for business after decades of being the go-to place for hidden $$$. http://www.fatf-gafi.org/countries/#Panama "The FATF recognised that Algeria, Angola and Panama have made significant progress in improving their regime…

> Real leaks don't have fancy websites with responsive vectorized portraits and a full on content /social media structure. Yes they do and you're welcome. Sincerely, somebody who worked on this for way too long and practically hasn't left the office this entire weekend.

>>Juan Penalti - Soccer Player

Nice touch. :)

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#282

Post by tootie »

harry8 wrote: post #265
tootie wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of noise being made over the number of documents, but I'm not seeing anything actually interesting about this. Offshore banking has been extremely common for a very long time and isn't illegal in and of itself. The hidden funds need to be provably originating from from an illicit source.

Ok, I'll bite. What do you think Vlad Putin's legit source is for his billions? His paycheck? Sometimes you don't have to know all the details. Somtimes the mere fact of a bank account with billions in it is enough to know, with certainty that a politician has his/her hand in the till and is a corrupt bastard. I pick on Vlad, there's plenty more to choose from. Now the evidence exists to remove doubt from the accusat…

I'm sure Putin's cash is ill-gained but I'm extremely doubtful it will be exposed in these docs. The NY Times has a story that he straight-up murdered a guy on American soil. That probably won't stick either.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#283

Post by smsm42 »

mcphage wrote: post #267
IkmoIkmo wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd replace wrongdoing with illegal. If you ask me, if you're a billionaire and you're not willing to pay taxes and spend 0.0001% of your wealth on the expertise to reduce your tax bill by 99%, in legal ways that 99.99% of the rest of the population doesn't engage in, then by all means that's wrongdoing to me and I think most would be with me on that. Of course it's not necessarily illegal.

> in legal ways that 99.99% of the rest of the population doesn't engage in This finally sounds like an industry that's ripe for disruption—Tax Loopholes For Everyone!

Probably wouldn't work. Tax "loopholes" are available for everyone - that is everyone who earns enough to use them. They aren't free, and if you need to spend $1000 to save $100 on your taxes (and have your money locked in several shells of corporations who knows where) that's not what you'd do. The reason not everybody does it is it just not worth it for most people except those having real lot of money (and usually not needing them right away but wanting to invest them long-term) or those who gotten their money by means other than legal.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#284

Post by smsm42 »

SilasX wrote: post #279
mcphage wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in legal ways that 99.99% of the rest of the population doesn't engage in This finally sounds like an industry that's ripe for disruption—Tax Loopholes For Everyone!

This x1000. It's the perfect opportunity for a startup: nation/globe sized potential, something people are willing to pay for, and accomplishes a public good: eliminating the inequality in taxation and making the effects of the tax code more readily transparent. (Though if you're too successful at that they'll rework tax systems to be more sane and less vulnerable to this kind of thing, which I would count as a victo…

Eliminating inequality of taxation means flat tax instead of progressive tax. That would require either substantial reduction of the government expenses or substantial raise of the taxes for low incomes. That probably won't be very popular.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#285

Post by smsm42 »

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #181
UVB-76 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, being featured in these documents is not in and of itself evidence of any wrongdoing. There are entirely lawful and legitimate reasons for making use of offshore company structures.

I'd replace wrongdoing with illegal. If you ask me, if you're a billionaire and you're not willing to pay taxes and spend 0.0001% of your wealth on the expertise to reduce your tax bill by 99%, in legal ways that 99.99% of the rest of the population doesn't engage in, then by all means that's wrongdoing to me and I think most would be with me on that. Of course it's not necessarily illegal.

Rest of the population doesn't engage in these ways because it's not worth it for them - they do not pay enough taxes to warrant it. Some people, however, pay lots of taxes - so much that it may make sense for them to spend money and go to great length to somewhat reduce their tax bills. They most probably still pay much more tax than average person - just not as much as they could be paying if they didn't use these ways. And there's nothing wrong with that. You could send extra money to your state anytime too, and you probably don't - so why should they?

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#287

Post by deciplex »

darkr wrote: post #114
randomname2 wrote: post #24

Selected quote: "The ICIJ findings include evidence that: - Offshore companies linked to the family of China's top leader, Xi Jinping, as well as Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko, who has positioned himself as a reformer in a country shaken by corruption scandals - 29 billionaires featured in Forbes Magazine's list of the world's 500 richest people - Icelandic Prime Minister Sigmundur David Gunnlaugsson and his w…

> British Prime Minister David Cameron, a leader in the push for tax-haven reform There was a load of rhetoric in 2011 about offshore/tax reform, but very little in the way of action since then. As with tradition in Cameron's brand of "Compassionate Conservatism", it's a depressingly cynical slight of hand and nothing more.

> sleight of hand

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#288

Post by SilasX »

smsm42 wrote: post #284
SilasX wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This x1000. It's the perfect opportunity for a startup: nation/globe sized potential, something people are willing to pay for, and accomplishes a public good: eliminating the inequality in taxation and making the effects of the tax code more readily transparent. (Though if you're too successful at that they'll rework tax systems to be more sane and less vulnerable to this kind of thing, which I would count as a victo…

Eliminating inequality of taxation means flat tax instead of progressive tax. That would require either substantial reduction of the government expenses or substantial raise of the taxes for low incomes. That probably won't be very popular.

The problem isn't (just) different rates for different incomes; it's how people of lesser means are less capable of setting the complicated structures that can make them technically owe less money under the definition of taxable income used by the tax code. A flat tax doesn't change that.

Re: Panama Papers: Mossack Fonseca leak reveals elite's tax havens

#290

Post by cft »

I like this quote: [1]

Fonseca was born 14 on July 1952 in Panama,and studied law and political science at the University of Panama and the London School of Economics. As a young man, "he hoped to save the world".

1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramón_Fonseca_Mora

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