Model 3 Unveiling [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#371

Post by daveguy » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 5:24 PM UTC

forgetsusername wrote: post #276

abtinf wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Tesla isn't profitable On a per-unit sold basis, Tesla Model S is wildly profitable, with a gross margin north of 30% [1]. However, they are obviously still in startup mode, so they reinvest all of those earnings along with investor capital into improving the business. >Cutting the price means they have to produce at a far lower cost while expanding factory capacity. Corporate finance is a little more nuanced than t…

> On a per-unit sold basis, Tesla Model S is wildly profitable, with a gross margin north of 30% SeekingAlpha is basically a collection of blogs to which anyone can contribute. If you spend any time there, you'd know "articles" are all over the map. I'm not sure that constitutes a good source.

Agreed. I would consider SeekingAlpha good for sentiment analysis and little else. You may as well quote twitter.

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#372

Post by daveguy » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 5:27 PM UTC

wlesieutre wrote: post #359

bryanlarsen wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (it's the only reason anyone's every heard of him) Derek Smart was an internet celebrity in the 90's. He was well known for his bombastic statements and engaging in flame wars about his own game, Battle Cruiser 3000AD.

Hm, I must have been on the wrong parts of the internet back then. I've seen his more recent projects (Line of Defense), but I had a Mac at the time so my selection of games was ... slightly limited.

Well, to be fair. In the 90s you were an internet celebrity if you had over 1000 viewers.

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#373

Post by pkulak » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 5:30 PM UTC

rsync wrote: post #152

suprgeek wrote: post #89

Very clean looks also: 215 Miles Range with 0-60 in 6secs, Seats 5 will have autodrive tech all for $35,000 Deliveries begin end of 2017 (Hopefully) This is truly a mass market full electric car. We may be seeing something on the lines of the iPhone - a category busting product.

"with 0-60 in 6secs" This part confuses me. The very fast 0-60 times that you see in electric cars are a function not of their massive engines or super tuned turbos, but of their instantaneous torque (as they are electric). Given that this is an electric car, and that its size and weight are commensurable to the (presumably) smaller electric motor, I would expect it to have similar 0-60 times. I just assumed that whe…

> The very fast 0-60 times that you see in electric cars are a function not of their massive engines or super tuned turbos, but of their instantaneous torque (as they are electric).

No, not quite. 0-60 times in an electric car are determined by power. You're right that motors don't have to change too much to be more powerful, but _delivering_ that much power becomes difficult.

First off, batteries can only deliver so much power, in proportion to their size. So, a 90kWh battery will be able to deliver more power than a 60kWh one. Then you have to change the DC power of the battery to AC for the motor: the more you want to handle the more inverter you need and the more costs rise. And all the ancillary things around the drivetrain need to scale up: cooling, copper wire gauge, etc.

It's easier to go fast in an EV, but you still don't get it for free. I'd actually prefer an 8-second 0-60 if they could put that money somewhere else. That's plenty fast for me.

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#374

Post by schwarrrtz » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 5:40 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #315

schwarrrtz wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that upgrade involves replacing the main pack contactor and fuse so they can handle the higher current draw.

Ludicrous requires a new contactor and fuse, yes. But what they didn't say and few people know (including, I assume, all the people who downvoted my original comment) is that all P90Ds have this hardware. There is at least one P90D test drive car which has been upgraded to Ludicrous in software by its service center, so it definitely doesn't require any hardware beyond what a P90D already has.

That's very interesting. I found a relevant thread on TMC[0] which seems to show that the two packs have the same part number. However, it didn't have a direct report of a software upgrade in a service center. Do you have a source?

[0] https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/p90d-insane-p90d-lud...

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#375

Post by viperscape » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 5:41 PM UTC

The low price especially concerns me since that means they're targeting high volume sales. A great question is what will become of the millions of batteries 5, 10, 15 years from now.

https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/mythbusters-part-3-recyclin...

Goes in to some detail but basically states, we have some good ideas, but our fallback is the land fill since these batteries etc are considered non toxic. Still: sourcing, building, recycling, and disposing of these batteries seems like a giant problem that is hard to believe is environmentally sound

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#376

Post by gniv » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 5:55 PM UTC

jasonwen wrote: post #282

gniv wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chevy Bolt looks pretty good! Some more recent pictures: http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/darin-gesse-chevrolet-bolt...

Is that you, CEO of GM? :')

I just got excited because apparently I've been living under a rock and never heard of the Bolt. The Model 3 looks slick, but if GM can deliver, this car might be a bigger deal for the future of EVs.

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#377

Post by mikeash » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 6:12 PM UTC

schwarrrtz wrote: post #374

mikeash wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ludicrous requires a new contactor and fuse, yes. But what they didn't say and few people know (including, I assume, all the people who downvoted my original comment) is that all P90Ds have this hardware. There is at least one P90D test drive car which has been upgraded to Ludicrous in software by its service center, so it definitely doesn't require any hardware beyond what a P90D already has.

That's very interesting. I found a relevant thread on TMC[0] which seems to show that the two packs have the same part number. However, it didn't have a direct report of a software upgrade in a service center. Do you have a source? [0] https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/p90d-insane-p90d-lud...

It was on TMC somewhere. I couldn't locate the original message about the test drive car, although there are some mentions of that message. I did dig this up:

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/l-or-no-l.63631/page...

That's a report of a P90D owner in the UAE who got theirs upgraded to Ludicrous using just a laptop and an underline for the badge on the car. According to that, early P90Ds weren't this way, but newer ones are.

It is definitely weird. You'd think this hardware costs a lot of money. Maybe inconel contactors and pyrotechnic fuses are cheaper than I think.

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#378

Post by vectorjohn » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 6:53 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #240

erikpukinskis wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other thing to remember is the Model 3 will still have that "100% torque from a full stop" feel that gives the Model S it's kick. I suspect it will feel much faster than an ICE with the same 0-60 speed.

I doubt it'd be much better than any manual car reving up to 4000 RPM and then dropping the clutch. You can squeal the wheels of even low-power engines with that technique. Frankly, zero-to-sixty in 6 seconds WITHOUT shifting and with 100% standing torque is kind of... awful actually. I suspect the opposite, when a ICE engine hits 4000 to 6000 RPM and the torque kicks in, you'll be accelerating far stronger than the…

Meh. In my opinion, manual transmissions are a waste and appeal to people's vroom vroom instincts. Which is not utilitarian. My electric fiat feels super powerful from a stop and I really appreciate it for merging or other uses. I don't want to drop any clutches or have my car sound like a revving chainsaw just to speed up quickly. My previous car was a Honda civic, and I appreciate the considerable improved acceleration and smooth everything of an electric car. I'll never again get an ICE if I can help it, and it looks like the model 3 will be waiting for me when I'm ready.

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#379

Post by elihu » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 6:58 PM UTC

avoutthere wrote: post #311

slg wrote: post #194

Some of the press pics and video from inside the car is really interesting. There is no instrument panel and the only screen is the center tablet. That would seem to be somewhat inconvenient to view things like speed. I wonder if that is hinting at a future with expanded autopilot were the driver can pay less attention to the instruments. [1] - https://twitter.com/autonews_west/status/715761107508584448 [2] - https:/…

If this is the final design, I think it's a terrible decision. I hope the production model will include an actual instrument panel.

I can understand wanting to use a screen rather than physical instruments (which are more complex, expensive, and have moving parts that break), but I hope they place it in front of the driver, not off to the right in the final version. Or at least have a smaller screen in front with things like speed and battery level.

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#380

Post by schwarrrtz » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 7:35 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #377

schwarrrtz wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's very interesting. I found a relevant thread on TMC[0] which seems to show that the two packs have the same part number. However, it didn't have a direct report of a software upgrade in a service center. Do you have a source? [0] https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/p90d-insane-p90d-lud...

It was on TMC somewhere . I couldn't locate the original message about the test drive car, although there are some mentions of that message. I did dig this up: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/l-or-no-l.63631/page... That's a report of a P90D owner in the UAE who got theirs upgraded to Ludicrous using just a laptop and an underline for the badge on the car. According to that, early P90Ds weren't this way, but…

Hm. Interesting. I can see a couple of other possibilities:

1) The upgraded hardware was required to support the current draw in the regular P90D, and the decision to offer the Ludicrous upgrade was an economic one.

2) The upgraded hardware was required to support the current draw in the regular P90D, but given their battery and drivetrain warranty they limited the max current to avoid excessive wear on the parts. The price of the Ludicrous mode upgrade is intended to offset increased maintenance costs while under warranty.