Model 3 Unveiling [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#311

Post by avoutthere » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 12:24 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #194

Some of the press pics and video from inside the car is really interesting. There is no instrument panel and the only screen is the center tablet. That would seem to be somewhat inconvenient to view things like speed. I wonder if that is hinting at a future with expanded autopilot were the driver can pay less attention to the instruments. [1] - https://twitter.com/autonews_west/status/715761107508584448 [2] - https:/…

If this is the final design, I think it's a terrible decision. I hope the production model will include an actual instrument panel.

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#312

Post by ohitsdom » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 12:25 PM UTC

Corrado wrote: post #234

llomlup wrote: post #227

Something isn't right there. The cockpit doesn't seem to be finished. Compared to Model S and Model X cockpits, this one isn't on par. Where are screens behind the wheel, what about the middle console, AC, wheel controls? http://cdn2.autoexpress.co.uk/sites/autoexpressuk/files/styl... , seriously?

I agree, to a point. The interior does look a bit spartan, however is this just a pre-release model? Will the final car look exactly like this? I can see certain things being tweaked over the next year and the dash is one of them.

Musk said as much: "You will see the car very clearly, but some important elements will be added and some will evolve."

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/715309739752747009

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#313

Post by ck2 » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 12:45 PM UTC

As long as there is a metal roof option in a couple decades when I can finally afford to buy one third-hand used.

Glass roof anywhere in the southwestern or southeastern usa is the worst idea I've ever seen. Not only the sun but stuff constantly being thrown on or at it on the highways.

Never had a windshield last more than a decade without a crack, imagine what it costs to replace a piece of glass the size of a car.

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#314

Post by Arnt » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 12:55 PM UTC

kgwgk wrote: post #261

abtinf wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Tesla isn't profitable On a per-unit sold basis, Tesla Model S is wildly profitable, with a gross margin north of 30% [1]. However, they are obviously still in startup mode, so they reinvest all of those earnings along with investor capital into improving the business. >Cutting the price means they have to produce at a far lower cost while expanding factory capacity. Corporate finance is a little more nuanced than t…

> On a per-unit sold basis, Tesla Model S is wildly profitable, with a gross margin north of 30% [1]. I didn't read the article, but it's from 2012. Gross margins hace declined from 27.6% in 2014 to 22.8%. In fact in the fourth quarter the gross margin was just 18%, below Toyota, Daimler, BMW, Nissan, Renault, Hyunday, Kia (all in the range 18.9-20.1%) and Honda (22.9%). To be fair it was 19.2% for Tesla's automotive…

Maybe it's worldbeating in the class of companies that are building sizable hardware factories, setting up near-global sales channels and still haven't launched five products. And maybe it isn't; I can't think of many such companies, can you?

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#315

Post by mikeash » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 1:09 PM UTC

schwarrrtz wrote: post #188

mikeash wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you can make more money by charging extra for performance. For an extreme example, the Model S P90D has a $10,000 Ludicrous Mode option which just flips a software switch.

No, that upgrade involves replacing the main pack contactor and fuse so they can handle the higher current draw.

Ludicrous requires a new contactor and fuse, yes. But what they didn't say and few people know (including, I assume, all the people who downvoted my original comment) is that all P90Ds have this hardware. There is at least one P90D test drive car which has been upgraded to Ludicrous in software by its service center, so it definitely doesn't require any hardware beyond what a P90D already has.

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#316

Post by mikeash » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 1:16 PM UTC

11402101 wrote: post #196

mikeash wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tesla is a bit cheaper. I don't think the Bolt has any Autopilot-like options. Far more importantly, the Bolt has no real fast charging infrastructure, either existing or planned. If you like to drive to places more than 200 miles away, there's still only one company with an EV that can reasonably do that.

Supercharging network should be irrelevant in my mind. If you need to drive more than 200 miles away, you need ICE. Assuming you could get a 100% full charge in 30 minutes at a supercharger, and 210 miles of range at 60mph, you are driving 3.5 hours and standing around for 30 minutes. Meanwhile, ICE can get you 400 miles, or 6.5 hours of driving at 60mph, on a 15 minute gas fill up. Electrics are great for a lot of r…

I love how every time I bring this up, somebody feels the need to mansplain to me how impractical it is in reality, as if I'm not speaking from experience.

I've driven my Model S on several long trips, including DC to Florida and back this winter. I'm planning a trip to Montreal this summer. At no point in this do I wish I had an ICE car for the trip, let alone "need" one. In fact, there's no other car (except maybe a Model X) I'd rather do this sort of trip in.

If you're the sort of person who grabs a sandwich while gassing up and eats it behind the wheel, like the commenter down below, then yes, the need to charge is going to really mess with you. But if you're the sort of person who still sits down for your meals during road trips and takes reasonable bathroom/stretch breaks, it hardly makes a difference.

Does the need to charge slow you down? Yes. Does it slow you down a lot? No. Does it mean you "need ICE" for any long trip? Absolutely not. In my experience, it slows you down by something like 10-15%. In exchange, you get a smooth, quiet ride that doesn't leave you tired at the end of the day's driving.

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#317

Post by mikeash » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 1:24 PM UTC

mdorazio wrote: post #229

aerovistae wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if to suggest people wouldn't be willing to wait a year to get the 3 instead of the Bolt. Do you really think these two products have equivalent level of appeal? I'm sorry, I may be missing something re: specs, but can you point to where it says that the Bolt will go 0-60 in Also, does the Bolt have a nationwide supercharging network? Does it have autopilot? Does it have an astounding, unparalleled safety rating?

Sure. Planned 0-60 in under 7 seconds for the Bolt [1] with similar fast charging capability at suitable chargers. If we're going to split hairs over being a second faster off the line when it's already not even as fast as significantly cheaper cars, then I'm not sure what to say. The lack of a supercharger network is definitely a downside for Chevy, but for your average commuter that shouldn't be a major issue. Plea…

I think the lack of a supercharger network is going to be huge. Yes, for your average commuter it shouldn't be a major issue, but it will be just the same. How to take road trips is the number one question/concern people have when I show them my Model S. There are many arguments to make about how it shouldn't matter, because long road trips are rare, you can take a different car, or rent a car, etc. But people just don't care. They don't want to spend a bunch of money or a car they can't drive to Grandma's house for Christmas, never mind that this is only an issue once a year and can be worked around.

Tiny nitpick: autopilot for the S and X (we'll see for the 3) is a $2,500 upgrade if you order it with the car. It's $3,000 if you activate it later. Incidentally, $2,500 is about how much more expensive the Bolt is than the Model 3.

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#318

Post by mikeash » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 1:31 PM UTC

dabeeeenster wrote: post #294

jonshariat wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a UI designer this is really interesting. How do drivers view speed? I need a demo video!

I think the car has to have a HUD...surely...

I don't think it needs one. Speed is displayed on the driver's side of the center screen. There are lots of cars out there already with the instrument cluster in the center of the dashboard rather than behind the steering wheel, such as the Prius.

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#319

Post by mikeash » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 1:34 PM UTC

jd20 wrote: post #132

shekyboy wrote: post #102

Felt the presentation ended half way. Wanted him to show the inside of the car and all the features. Caught the glimpse the new horizontal screen, but no details on that in the presentation or on the side.... Wonder if they are not ready with all those yet. Or maybe I am used to Apple keynotes

Felt more like they're just not ready yet (not a good sign IMO). When the final version of the Model X got a stage reveal, Musk presented a great deal more info (interior, new features like BioHazard mode, etc...)

When the final version of the Model X got a stage reveal, they capped off the night by delivering cars to their first six customers. It's not a reasonable comparison with the Model 3 target release being a year and a half out.

Re: Model 3 Unveiling [video]

#320

Post by mikeash » Fri, Apr 01, 2016, 1:39 PM UTC

tomkinstinch wrote: post #100

bane wrote: post #17

re: the commercial barrage, How the hell much to they pay postal carriers in Rural Minnesota? I'm definitely in the wrong business and live in the wrong place.

I was curious too, but it looks like the USPS reimbursement rates [1] for rural personal vehicles are decent, and are no doubt geared toward gas cars that have much higher operating and maintenance costs. Depending on how far a mail carrier drives, it could plausibly cover the cost of the Model S. Not a bad gig. In the video, the postal carrier mentions the Tesla being better than spending $30 on gas per day. At $2.5…

73.5 cents per mile, if he's doing 250 miles per day then that's about $180/day reimbursed, and about $10 for electricity. If he does this six days a week, that's something like $4,000/month just in mileage reimbursement. That'll cover the monthly payment on any Model S you care to configure, at least twice. You'll wear the car out a lot faster, but even so, sounds like a pretty good gig.