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Ubuntu on Windows

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Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#871

Post by khattam »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #172
x1798DE wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not move to Linux?

Just out of curiosity, what does a Linux desktop offer that's not also natively offered in Mac and also highly polished? Every year I try a switch to Linux desktop. This year I made it as far as trying to get multiple monitors working well. I also dabbed in gaming. In the end I went back to my work=Mac game=Windows duopoly.

>Just out of curiosity, what does a Linux desktop offer that's not also natively offered in Mac and also highly polished?

I use Mac OS X and this is what I miss about Linux:

- Clean package/software management and updates.

- Basic customizability without having to install 3rd party binaries from untrusted sources

- Multiple filesystem support (NTFS write not supported out of the box... needing 3rd party software... ext support has to be compiled, breaks with updates... generally PITA)

- Easy installation of software/libraries from source (generally PITA to set up toolchain to compile general cross platform open source software)

- Proper desktop environment (the one that OS X has is shit compared to Gnome)

- Proper file manager (the one that OS X has is shit compared to Nautilus)

- Up to date and standard command-line tools (The ones in OS X are old... for example check the version of unzip... they can't unpack zip files created by new zip tool)

- Better command line system wide file search (I love mlocate, the one in OS X is shit)

- Ability to run docker natively

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#872

Post by kbenson »

justinclift wrote: post #867
kbenson wrote: post #866

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that's a wild situation, and MS is not behaving well, it's not quite forcing a Windows 10 upgrade. It's forcing people to be nagged about it, and causing problems in corporate IT departments where they do not want to upgrade and it keeps subverting their control. It's not good, but it's not forcing upgrades either (which is liable to get them sued).

Hmmm, I really get the impression it's doing a lot more than just nagging. Direct examples mentioned here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11285488

Whoa, I missed that. I was thinking of the prior case where it "accidentally" became recommended, but this casts that prior episode in new light. I can't imagine what they are thinking.

Unless... There's some fundamental core security problem in earlier Windows versions that isn't in Windows 10 and they don't want to tip off anyone to what it is, because it's so large and egregious it opens them up to a lot of liability and lawsuits. Okay, I'll take my tinfoil hat off now...

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#873

Post by unscaled »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #792
derek_kanjus wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What bothers me about people bringing Embrace, Extend, Extinguish is how they never mention how all the big software companies do this. For example, how many nice JavaScript features are in Google Chrome that aren't anywhere close to real standards? But when anyone but Microsoft does it they're just pushing the industry forward, not out to stab you in the back. Let's not call it Embrace, Extend, Extinguish until we s…

> Microsoft is a very different company than it used to be. Based on what, exactly? That they opened part of .NET, except that it's only the web stack, and not the part everyone wants (WinForms)? That they released a reskinned version of the Atom editor? That they announced the release of a Linux version of SQL Server, except that it will be a simplified version, absent of the enterprise features? That they submitted…

Windows Forms is just a wrapper around the GUI parts of the Windows API. Even if they do open it it won't help anyone port Windows Forms to anything else, since the real display logic is implemented in the huge legacy codebase that is user32.dll, gdi32.dll and so forth.

Now, I would be glad if they open source WPF, which is very well designed GUI framework that could be great for cross platform apps, but it seems like they've kinda abandoned the XAML front. Even releasing existing code to open source takes resources, and Microsoft is not charity.

I'd say the same thing about porting Microsoft Office to Linux. Microsoft has, in fact, released Office apps for Android, and they would definitely rush to release office for desktop Linux if it had a non-negligible number of users. Maybe next year - after all 2017 is poised to be the year of the Linux desktop!

So Yeah, I think Microsoft has really changed. Of course it's all because they're not the market leader anymore and they need to survive! Yes, they can no longer succeed just by making a buggier version of tech X and pimping it on MSDN Magazine and have flocks of developers run to implement their latest version of COM++. So what? It doesn't make it any less real.

You should be suspicious about Microsoft's motive as much as I'm suspicious about Google or Apple or any other large company. But bringing up Embrace, Extend and Extinguish every time Microsoft does something makes you sound only a little less anachronistic than writing their name with a dollar sign.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#874

Post by unscaled »

SXX wrote: post #477
partiallypro wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is not the same company it was 25 years ago, much less 3 years ago. Microsoft cares about Azure now, and Azure requires GNU/Linux. It just makes sense for Microsoft to do this, and I for one am pretty excited about it.

Once Microsoft stop charge users of Linux-based products for their patents or at least stop doing that shady way under NDA I'll believe it's not the same company. So far they get better in communication with open source community, but their business practices are all the same and Windows 10 only prove it.

This is definitely bad behavior from Microsoft that amounts to patent trolling, but that's still way better than the old Microsoft was. They weren't the only ones though, as any of the fancy patent lawsuit maps of the smartphone patent wars would show you.

Apple was notorious for suing Samsung of using the patented shape of a rectangle and while this was a misrepresentation of the way design patents work, most the patents they've used in their lawsuits were frivolous as well.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#875

Post by YokoZar »

creshal wrote: post #721
ajdlinux wrote: post #719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt any game developer decides not to release a Linux version purely because "oh, Wine exists".

Game developers no idea, application developers yes. TeamViewer and Softmaker Office are programs I ditched in frustration because their official Linux "ports" are the Windows versions bundled with a bugged WinE wrapper around them.

The problem here is that Wine is buggy, not that application developers aren't all rewriting everything.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#876

Post by noelsusman »

girvo wrote: post #524
noelsusman wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish. On newer models there's a kernel issue that prevents proper suspend and shutdown, which is a dealbreaker for a laptop. I have yet to find a workaround. https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101681 https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=103211

What, what? Aren't those Linux kernel bugs? I'm confused what they have to do with running Windows on Mac hardware, though perhaps I'm missing something

It originally said "Linux runs great on Macs!" Not sure why it was edited.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#878

Post by jug »

takeda wrote: post #233

Surprised I don't see anyone else mentioning this. This looks to me like typical Microsoft strategy that they utilized a lot 25 years ago. 1. when not leader in given market, make your product fully compatible with competitor 2. start gaining momentum (e.g. why should I use Linux, when on Windows I can run both Linux and Windows applications) 3. once becoming leader break up compatibility 4. rinse and repeat Happened…

I'm not too worried. This is not a full Linux software stack, so it seems more useful to make Windows a more attractive development platform, but what you develop on this would still be for Linux and not instead of Linux.

It might in theory tempt developers to migrate from Linux to Windows more comfortably, with both userlands now available at once, but this doesn't really attempt to make that process easier, other than that.

Besides, I don't feel like Windows is a that attractive platform to develop for nowadays with the cesspool that is Windows Store, the pointless new Universal Windows Platform when your apps need to follow a weakest link due to an almost non-existing Windows Phone market, combined with their lack of leading position on the web.

I think all this is what's bothering Microsoft, because with no development steam, the whole platform suffers a lot. I think the transition at Microsoft lately is happening because they are transitioning from a comfortable leader to a competitor, not because they are trying to squash the competition. They probably long for the days when they were in a position to still have that luxury.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#879

Post by cyphar »

tychuz wrote: post #761
cyphar wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just out of curiosity, what does a Linux desktop offer that's not also natively offered in Mac and also highly polished? Freedom, a full GNU userland, proper package management of the entire system, plethora of CLI programs which can fulfil your every need and only really work on GNU/Linux, configurable, etc. > Every year I try a switch to Linux desktop. This year I made it as far as trying to get multiple monitors…

>Freedom People are not interested.

I am a person, therefore a subset of people. I am interested. QED. Not to mention that that wasn't the only thing I mentioned, it was just the first because it's the most important.

Re: Ubuntu on Windows

#880

Post by stevetrewick »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #792
derek_kanjus wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What bothers me about people bringing Embrace, Extend, Extinguish is how they never mention how all the big software companies do this. For example, how many nice JavaScript features are in Google Chrome that aren't anywhere close to real standards? But when anyone but Microsoft does it they're just pushing the industry forward, not out to stab you in the back. Let's not call it Embrace, Extend, Extinguish until we s…

> Microsoft is a very different company than it used to be. Based on what, exactly? That they opened part of .NET, except that it's only the web stack, and not the part everyone wants (WinForms)? That they released a reskinned version of the Atom editor? That they announced the release of a Linux version of SQL Server, except that it will be a simplified version, absent of the enterprise features? That they submitted…

>Office suites are hardly important any more

A solid majority of the people on the day side of the planet who are looking at a computer right now are looking at an Excel or Word document.

MS Office has 1.2 billion users [0] (and that probably doesn't include unlicensed users). That's pretty important.

[0] http://news.microsoft.com/bythenumbers/planet-office

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