State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation • Hacker News Board

Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#61

Post by DiNovi » Tue, Mar 29, 2016, 2:02 PM UTC

nilliams wrote: post #39

olouv wrote: post #15

I've been a big fan of bootstrap, but I find that these CSS frameworks are becoming more and more irrelevant in the age of widespread flexbox support. CSS modules do put the last nail in the coffin.

I don't find this to be the case. There are a ton of conventions in Bootstrap, an obvious one being its variables, that are very useful when working in a team, and (in our experience) with outside contractors. I couldn't imagine giving up Bootstrap simply 'because flexbox'. Also flexbox support in IE is still terrible, so for those of us building sites for the open-web it's a non-starter for things where a 'just does…

I disagree. Flexbox is a little buggy in IE11(and IE10 with auto-preifxer and the old spec) for almost everything it's fine, you just need to remember to set widths on column layouts, which is just one extra line.

Not to say it isn't frustrating, especially since it works extremely well in Edge but MS said they won't port the fixes over.

Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#62

Post by me_bx » Tue, Mar 29, 2016, 2:04 PM UTC

Any opinions about uikit [0]?

From the presentation it look pretty full-featured and modular, I'd be interested to know what people who tried it think...

[0]: http://getuikit.com/

Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#63

Post by DougWebb » Tue, Mar 29, 2016, 2:07 PM UTC

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #60

My concern with both of these is that I'm slapping classes on all of my UI everywhere. Why can't a button just get all of the bootstrap btn styles automatically? Why not have forms look right just by selecting the elements that make them up? This is a problem for Foundation too. Does anyone know why they have chosen to do this?

It's a choice between opt-in and opt-out; sometimes you don't want the framework styles applied and you need a way to control that. The drawback to opt-out is that you may not control the markup where the styles shouldn't apply.

Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#64

Post by ianleeclark » Tue, Mar 29, 2016, 2:07 PM UTC

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #60

My concern with both of these is that I'm slapping classes on all of my UI everywhere. Why can't a button just get all of the bootstrap btn styles automatically? Why not have forms look right just by selecting the elements that make them up? This is a problem for Foundation too. Does anyone know why they have chosen to do this?

It seems fairly over-opinionated for the framework to declare every button as exactly the same. What if a developer needs one orange square button and one normal, greyish-silver boostrap button. If every class is automatically applied to each button, you're going to need to override the styling for that specific orange, square button.

Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#65

Post by lmm » Tue, Mar 29, 2016, 2:19 PM UTC

ianleeclark wrote: post #64

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #60

My concern with both of these is that I'm slapping classes on all of my UI everywhere. Why can't a button just get all of the bootstrap btn styles automatically? Why not have forms look right just by selecting the elements that make them up? This is a problem for Foundation too. Does anyone know why they have chosen to do this?

It seems fairly over-opinionated for the framework to declare every button as exactly the same. What if a developer needs one orange square button and one normal, greyish-silver boostrap button. If every class is automatically applied to each button, you're going to need to override the styling for that specific orange, square button.

Well yeah. The defaults should be defaults, and if you want to change them you override them. No?

Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#66

Post by woah » Tue, Mar 29, 2016, 2:42 PM UTC

cmdkeen wrote: post #31

The key unanswered question, and for me the fundamental reason I switched from using Bootstrap to Foundation at work, is how designer friendly the two are. Bootstrap is fantastic when you want a site that looks like Bootstrap, these tend to be put together by developers. Foundation (at least was) much less opinionated and therefore when you're given a PSD by a designer much easier to implement. Have things improved o…

Were you using the variables file? I found Bootstrap very easy to customize.

Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#67

Post by reitanqild » Tue, Mar 29, 2016, 2:44 PM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #54

yoavm wrote: post #23

It's 2016 and Bootstrap still doesn't have native RTL support. Foundation had it (excellently) since 2013. When I'm building something for the local market, this has a major affect on my decision.

There was an attempt to do so. They were using an RTL-flipping tool and it all looked pretty cool (I built something with it) but then one of the people who manually flipped Bootstrap basically accused them of being culturally insensitive by trying to automate this task and they abandoned it.

If true this could be added to a list of nasty side effects of rampant enforcement of political correctness.

Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#68

Post by leeoniya » Tue, Mar 29, 2016, 2:45 PM UTC

olouv wrote: post #15

I've been a big fan of bootstrap, but I find that these CSS frameworks are becoming more and more irrelevant in the age of widespread flexbox support. CSS modules do put the last nail in the coffin.

also see http://leejordan.github.io/reflex/docs/

Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#69

Post by etimberg » Tue, Mar 29, 2016, 2:45 PM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #54

yoavm wrote: post #23

It's 2016 and Bootstrap still doesn't have native RTL support. Foundation had it (excellently) since 2013. When I'm building something for the local market, this has a major affect on my decision.

There was an attempt to do so. They were using an RTL-flipping tool and it all looked pretty cool (I built something with it) but then one of the people who manually flipped Bootstrap basically accused them of being culturally insensitive by trying to automate this task and they abandoned it.

I think this [1] is the related thread.

1. https://github.com/twbs/bootstrap/issues/13564

Re: State of Bootstrap 4 vs. Foundation

#70

Post by yodon » Tue, Mar 29, 2016, 2:47 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #51

dherran wrote: post #24

This is Danny here. I didn't expect this much traffic so I am sorting out the database connection issues. The server is overloaded. Sorry for the inconvenience!

Static page cache man. If you're using Wordpress check out the Supercache plugin.

Thanks for a great writeup, and fyi there's something up with your banner/header code on iOS - scrolling causes the header to drop down, slide up, drop down, again and again (typically 7-10 times)