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Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

theguardian.com

261–270 of 318 posts

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#261
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this incident precipitated the other events by likely distressing Alex Nieto and causing him to appear agitated.

I do not like being manipulated by journalists abusing their positions to push their preferred narrative. Solnit would like us to believe Snow was complicit in Nieto's killing, because it supports her narrative. Surely Solnit was made aware, before this article was published, of critically important details, like Nieto's diagnosed and medicated psychosis (he was off his meds), or his record of having violently confro…

Is there evidence that Nieto was behaving in a threatening manner, beyond that of having been attacked by a dog? Is there evidence that the responding officers knew of Nieto's diagnosis?

The message does indicate the state of mind of the responding officers.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#262
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this incident precipitated the other events by likely distressing Alex Nieto and causing him to appear agitated.

I do not like being manipulated by journalists abusing their positions to push their preferred narrative. Solnit would like us to believe Snow was complicit in Nieto's killing, because it supports her narrative. Surely Solnit was made aware, before this article was published, of critically important details, like Nieto's diagnosed and medicated psychosis (he was off his meds), or his record of having violently confro…

No, I don't. I also do not think Snow was complicit or otherwise responsible for Nieto's death, but help contribute to the environment where it was made possible.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#263
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Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please provide one piece of evidence that police anywhere are trained to "shoot to disable".

https://www.politie.nl/themas/schietincident.html

Perhaps it's my poor Dutch, but your link does not say that.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#265
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are saying that it's incredibly stupid to routinely put police into situations where they have less than 5 seconds to decide whether or not they are required to kill someone to protect themselves or their partners, I agree. I think we should disarm most police.

Well, obviously the less police and the general public are put in this position the better, and when there is a gunman running around the neighborhood, there better be police to subdue, and yes, if it's required to save other lives, kill him. The point here, though is not to deny police their right to self defense, the point is to train them in a way that their first action to exercise that right is not with as much…

Most police are not the kind of police you see on COPS. If COPS imitated real life, most of the episode would be spent filling out paperwork or giving citations.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#266
What about the "UnProvoker": free floating handcuffs that at the press of an easily accessible button will clamp on your hands and fingers, so if the incoming cop team shoots you, they won't be able to claim you acted menacing? Also the cops then have to come untie you, maybe time enough to start a conversation about racial profiling?

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not like being manipulated by journalists abusing their positions to push their preferred narrative. Solnit would like us to believe Snow was complicit in Nieto's killing, because it supports her narrative. Surely Solnit was made aware, before this article was published, of critically important details, like Nieto's diagnosed and medicated psychosis (he was off his meds), or his record of having violently confro…

Is there evidence that Nieto was behaving in a threatening manner, beyond that of having been attacked by a dog? Is there evidence that the responding officers knew of Nieto's diagnosis? The message does indicate the state of mind of the responding officers.

Yes, there is, in the DA report. It's obviously all up for debate.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#268

Why would a person ever point a taser with a laser sight at uniformed police in this country? Yes this is a tragedy, but how are police supposed to react to a gun-like object pointed at them, in the heat of the moment? Cops get shot also. They are nervous on the job. As we would be, in their position. Are they supposed to react to a pointed gun with understanding and open arms? I just don't think that's practical.

That police officers get nervous and can be consumed by an adrenaline fueled fight or flight response (while armed) seems to be part of the problem.

I wonder if there's a pharmaceutical solution to this problem that would suppress the adrenaline and the fight or flight response to allow officers to remain cool headed even if someone is threatening them with a gun (or appears to be as was, perhaps, the case in this instance).

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#269

This police-assisted murder is a shame but I don't understand why we expect neighborhoods to remain frozen in time forever, never changing their racial or socioeconomic makeup for as long as the area exists. It's a given that neighborhoods, especially in the city, will change over time. The real issue isn't whether people who don't look like the lifelong residents will move in, it's if those new neighbors will treat…

It all depends on who has the money and therefore the power. When the newcomers are wealthier and inclined to view the residents as undesirables, you get this sort of thing.

It goes the other way, too. In Amarillo, where I grew up, some neighborhoods had an influx of Vietnamese working in the meat packing industry; near where I live now, there's a large community of Mexican immigrants doing chicken processing. In both cases, take a wild guess who the police have problems with.

Re: Death by gentrification: the killing that shamed San Francisco

#270
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Something that is incredibly fucking stupid Any evidence of this point? >and there are plenty of countries who do very well without this misguided use of of lethal weapons. Many countries choose to not use guns. There is a vast difference between not using guns and trying to shoot to wound. If you want to protest against the police using guns, speak directly to that.

You ask of evidence in a thread about a man being killed by police emptying multiple magazines into and the area around him . That doesn't even sound like shoot-to-kill that sounds like they were afraid to death. There's plenty of more stories of where that one came from. Were you unaware of that? It ultimately comes down to the relationship that you want the populace to have with their police force. A policy of shoo…

>You ask of evidence in a thread about a man being killed by police emptying multiple magazines into and the area around him.

This is a question of accuracy and situation awareness, not of intention when shooting.

>That doesn't even sound like shoot-to-kill that sounds like they were afraid to death.

My question was directly related to the comment made about shooting to kill, not about when to shoot.

>There's plenty of more stories of where that one came from. Were you unaware of that?

Stories about shooting when you shouldn't, not about shooting to kill.

>A policy of shoot-to-kill tells the populace

No, the policy of shooting too soon, without assessing the situation, is the cause of the problem. There is a distinction between when to shoot and how one shoots once they have made the decision. My question was focused on a comment made about the latter.

>I take issue to the police being justified in using lethal force as a first resort.

And I agree they are too quick to shoot. But my question was directed to a comment made about how they shoot once they shoot, now about when they shoot.

Where is the evidence (or argument) that shooting to kill is, and I paraphrase, something that is incredibly stupid? Arguments supporting knowing when to shoot, knowing what is around the target you are shooting, knowing how to shoot such that you hit the target do not answer this question.

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